MG-5, TOZ-35, MG-2 + 11 different ammo bench tested

Slava, just want to verify couple things. Video states 25m? Is that correct? Also is the wooden table attached to the floor or free standing?
When I used to test my .22 pistols/ammunition, my 50 yd groups were generally better than what you are getting at 25m.

Not trying to be a jerk


Jon

Jon Eulette wrote:Slava, just want to verify couple things. Video states 25m? Is that correct? Also is the wooden table attached to the floor or free standing?
When I used to test my .22 pistols/ammunition, my 50 yd groups were generally better than what you are getting at 25m.

Not trying to be a jerk


Jon

Jon,
the exact distance is 84 feet, which comes out to 25.6 meters. I moved the target a little closer to get exact 25meters.
The guns were attached to the 1/2" solid metal table bolted to the floor in all 4 corners. It is definitely not going anywhere. I did not know what to expect so I always wanted to test it out.

I stand corrected lol. Now that’s a steel table!
Thanks 
Jon

Thank you for posting this.  

What is the difference between the 2 CCI ammo?

Also, any chance you could post a complete table of the results?  Just from watching the video it seemed like both SKs did pretty well and I would have expected the Eley to be better.

The SK groups don't surprise me a bit, I love the Pistol Match (the Special is just a little too hot for my Benelli). I have a stash, and I'm hoarding it a bit more these days!

What impresses me most is the Wolf. Great groups from a relatively inexpensive and available ammo.

If I had a suggestion for ammo to be tested, I’d compare Norma Match 22 and Norma Tac 22.  These are so similar and are priced almost low enough to be usable as training ammo.  And there are enough inquiries on this site about their differences.  You might also use a chronograph to see how consistent they are out of at least one pistol?

Isn't the Wolf a rebranded SK? Or is it a "new" Wolf which is Lapua?
Can you please also test SK Standard Plus?

javaduke wrote:Isn't the Wolf a rebranded SK? Or is it a "new" Wolf which is Lapua?
Can you please also test SK Standard Plus?

Based on the packaging and round comparison it looks like wolf is very similar if not identical to SK.
I bought some additional ammo for future testing, but it adds up very quickly. 
If you can provide the ammo i can do the testing.
I already did part 2 testing and need to put the video together. I have three more Eley and Norma to test next.
I also bought chronometer to see if the variation in speed affects the accuracy.
Did some air pistol testing as well but need to complete a couple more tests.

Can you post of photo of how you clamped the TOZ-35?

I 3d print support for barrell

Toz35m wrote:Can you post of photo of how you clamped the TOZ-35?

slavka001 wrote:

javaduke wrote:Isn't the Wolf a rebranded SK? Or is it a "new" Wolf which is Lapua?
Can you please also test SK Standard Plus?

Based on the packaging and round comparison it looks like wolf is very similar if not identical to SK.

Wolf used to be manufactured on the same line as SK, but apparently that's changed recently. On your Wolf boxes, where does it say is the country of origin? Do they have the SK-style headstamp, like a reticle pattern? Perhaps they're the older version.

Here’s my Toz with RWS R-50. 53 meters, 10 shots. This is a typical target we USAR Team shooters used to get. 
Jon 

Jon Eulette wrote:Here’s my Toz with RWS R-50. 53 meters, 10 shots. This is a typical target we USAR Team shooters used to get. 
Jon 

Yes, that is what I would like to witness myself. MG also comes test target with no mentioning of the testing parameters.

Does clamping the barrel affect the accuracy by altering harmonics?

Short barreled pistols seem to shoot ok with the barrel clamped for accuracy testing. David Sams uses barrel clamp setup that inserts into RR. I think it's possible that the longer thinner free pistol barrels are affected by barrel clamping attachment/hold down. 
Jon

Would love to see the same tests repeated on a Ransom Rest.

Well, Slava, if you want to use mine, feel free.  I can leave it at Hummelstown or bring it to our next match together.  I just don't have inserts for your pistols.

On topic, I believe the comparison between the ammo is what is relevant here, not the raw group size(s).

Current wolf is Eley. On the Norma Tac I remember when it first hit the market, they stated on their website that the match version was simply a lot that tested better. Similar to Eley Target and Club. Comes off the same line and Club tested better in their rifles.. the funny thing is I have a lot of Target that out shoots all the Club lots I own.. proving once again, find the ammo your 22 likes and use it....

Acceptance testing methods are used to sort lots into different "grades" by manufacturers. The difference between Midas and Center-X is that when a lot is randomly tested, if the testing yields a high degree of consistency, it is branded as Midas. If it's of lesser consistency, it's Center-X. I don't know what Lapua's actual consistency criteria is (number of test shots, group size, etc.), but the implication is that, since the entire lot is not tested, there are confidence limits on the results. For example, acceptance testing might show that Lapua can be 95% confident that a lot branded "Midas" meets their consistency criterion (group size). That means there is a 5% chance that it does not. On the other hand, they may test and "reject" a lot and, say, brand it as "Center-X" but because it is of lesser consistency than Midas, there is a chance (due to random testing) that the lot is actually better than Center-X and should have been branded as Midas. So they sold a lot of Center-X that should have been sold as Midas, thus losing money. That's called the sellers risk. There is also the buyers risk, where a buyer purchases Midas, but due to random testing, the test articles performed unexpectedly well (thus the lot is put in the Midas category), however, in reality it's in that 5% category so on average it consistency is less, more like Center-X. I would guess that Eley does the same thing. There are other factors that influence what ammo shoots best in a particular gun, but this is one reason why Center-X can out shoot Midas for some folks, and why smallbore shooters look for particular ammo lot numbers based on their experience. I think the saving grace with good quality .22 ammo is that out of a good pistol barrel, the human factor tends to dominate group size (and score). Just re-zero and have at it.

A lot of this “grading” of ammo is also subject to the orders they have. If Eley (or whoever) makes a batch of ammo on the (for example) “Club Target” line and find that it meets the specs of the better grade, they may sell it at a lower grade because they have orders to fill.