Lemishine vs citric acid, mask at the range?

Well, finally got my blood tested for lead, and it's high. Convinced me to switch to wet tumbling. Buying everything today (frankford rotary 7L, magnet, and brass dryer). I know Lemishine has been talked about, but not sure which one to get. I also have ready access to powdered citric acid. Can I just use dish soap and citric acid? How much of each? Plan is to decap with gloves and mask, tumble with steel pins, rinse and separate brass and pins using the tumbling cylinder, dry brass, then spray with One Shot in a plastic bin to lubricate. Sound fair? 

Also plan on masking and using gloves when reloading. I talked to the range manager at the indoor range I use, and he indicated to me that they test all their guys regularly. He said that the ones that need to be careful are the ones that are cleaning filters and lead, and that the ones that spend the majority of their time behind the line rarely have issues. He seemed to think that wearing a mask while shooting (which he was quick to point out I'm welcome to do) probably wouldn't affect my lead levels as much as changing my reloading habits and doing a better job of washing my hands after shooting and loading. Thoughts?

Dave

What was your lead level in the blood? Don't smoke or eat after shooting or reloading. Buy Dlead products and use them (I like the hand soap and disposable wipes). After a session at an indoor range or reloading, shower and put on a fresh set of clothes.

Dlead has a shampoo that I use as soon as I get home from indoor shooting. A friend in the local league had high levels and got them back down just by showering after each shoot.

Once the cases are clean I am skeptical of lead exposure during loading. Still worth washing hands afterward.

D-Lead seems to be good stuff.

General handwashing after handling anything lead related makes a big difference.

Masking at the range is not a bad idea. If the range is modern, commercial and has good ventilation your exposure should be minimal. If you are shooting in an older, private, club range that doesn't have good ventilation, then it can be a major source of lead (it was for me). Also those ranges probably have lead on all the surfaces throughout the building so handwashing after shooting and changing clothes and washing when you get home (including hair and face) is a good idea. Obviously eating or smoking without washing up is a bad idea.

Don't forget your shoes either. They can track lead into your house. This probably isn't a big risk for you, but if you could have children crawling on the floor they can pick up lead. Lead isn't a good thing for adults, but it is a terrible thing for children.

For the mask you want at least N95 or P95. N100 and P100 are even better. Get the best seal as you can around the nose and mout. I ended up buying a respirator because I couldn't get a good seal with the disposable N100 masks.

Cleaning guns is another potential source of contamination. The solvents can absorb into the skin and bring lead with it. Wear gloves and wash afterwards.

I didn't bother wearing a mask loading or cleaning. I did wear gloves most of the time cleaning and washed thoroughly after handling anything gun related and I was able to bring my blood lead down from 54 mg/dl to around 10 in a year or two while still shooting weekly at a range with terrible ventilation. It continued to come down slowly to the low single digits before I stopped testing.

Just as a FYI, what was your lead level? Mine was 14, I wore a P100 respirator when indoors and got my Lead Level down to 7 within 3 months. I also started to keep my shooting clothes and shoes in the garage, I wash clothes with D Lead Soap. I'm now back to shooting without a mask indoors and seeing if that alone will bring my lead level back up. I also stated wearing gloves while reloading, I always used a P100 respirator when I emptied my cases from the dry media vibratory cleaner. 

I'm going to consider showering after shooting. I did too many things at once to see if not wearing a respirator indoors was the root cause. It was a PITA shoot an 1800 practice session with the respirator but I did it!

Greetings,

I prefer pure Citric Acid crystals.

LemiShine refused to disclose what their product was made of.

Cheers,

Dave

I stopped using LemiShine all together and just use Armor All Wash and Wax works great and it's easier on the cases.

If your using pins get these too they work great

https://www.frankfordarsenal.com/case-cleaning/case-cleaning-tumblers/rotary-tumbler-straining-caps/1097883.html#start=1


Definitely use the One shot case lube that makes things run so much easier.

Thank you all for the suggestions. My level was 36, so action is certainly warranted. They have Dlead at the range, so I'm using that after I shoot every time now. I ordered some to use at home after touching anything gun related. I do have kids, but old enough they don't crawl. I'll start leaving my shoes outside, and changing clothes when I get home. Hoping that combined with switching to wet tumbling will take care of things.

I'm sure I'll get tested again in a month or two.

Dave

I have been shooting Bullseye for about 3 years, had my lead level tested for the first time last September.  It came in at 4.5.  Doc wanted me to stop shooting for a month and test again to see what would happen, came in at 4.1.  Here is what I have been doing:

• I shoot indoors once a week for about an hour.  Range has fairly good ventilation, it could be better.
  
• I usually shoot one outdoor 1800 match per month.
  
• When finished at the range, wash hands with soap and water, D lead wipe also if I have one.
  
• When I get home, enter the garage and remove all clothes, immediately into washing machine with Dlead laundry detergent.
  
• I then take a shower, use Dlead soap, including on my hair.
  
• I have separate shoes for shooting that stay outside.
  
• I wear disposable latex gloves when handling empty casings and reloading.
  
• I haven't worn a respirator.
  
• I deprime cases then wet tumble with pins.  I load coated (Brazos) bullets.
  

I do use lemishine sparingly when tumbling, about 1/4 tsp per load.  I also add 1/4 tsp cream of tarter powder, and dawn liquid soap.  I'm using the small tumbler, about 300 casings per load.

Rburk to be clear did you start changing the clothes, showering, wearing gloves etc before or after the first reading in the 4s?

The only recent change I have made is I now shower as soon as I get home from shooting (started that after the first lead test in Sept.)  Everything else on the list I have been doing for more than a year.

Dcforman wrote:Thank you all for the suggestions. My level was 36, so action is certainly warranted. They have Dlead at the range, so I'm using that after I shoot every time now. I ordered some to use at home after touching anything gun related. I do have kids, but old enough they don't crawl. I'll start leaving my shoes outside, and changing clothes when I get home. Hoping that combined with switching to wet tumbling will take care of things.

I'm sure I'll get tested again in a month or two.

Dave

The latest I heard and it might have changed is a lead level of 20 or over is reason for immediate action. Your test has probably been reported to the appropriate agency. Most folks over-react when they get any lead level in the blood. For adults, it isn't a big deal, but it is still a good idea to use good hygiene after shooting and not eat or smoke while shooting. Hope you turn those numbers around soon. Adults do get rid of lead without any special medical intervention. Children are the most at risk and the CDC recommends that children have zero lead in their blood.

I quit using anything but dawn dish soap.3 Tablespoons per batch. Gets them clean enough that I need to use a little spray on case lube to avoid galling in my crimp die.

Never messed with steel pins. No they're not perfectly clean, but cleaner than vibratory gets them

If you are concerned with limiting lead exposure/absorption, during case cleaning do not use any dry tumbling vibratory methods. At least, until the cases have been intially cleaned if you do stages of cleaning. Always wear the non latex Nitrile Vinyl blend gloves. Be sure not to touch your skin especially face mouth eyes while shooting reloading gun cleaning. I wear those type of disposable gloves went touching anything that is toxic, carcinogenic, mutagenic, etc.. Use them even under other gloves more durable gloves depending. Working on automotive engines picking up fired cases, cleaning firearms cases, loading, etc.

After shooting wash your clothes and take a shower.

Be sure to not touch the waste water of case cleaning and do not use anything you use for food consumption.i.e do not pour it down your kitchen sink or bathroom tub sink etc. Mop sink or shop drain works if on city water. If on septic personally I would dump it down flow of any vegetable garden or pond or stream. Somewhere you can ve reasonable certain it will be absorbed into the soil column where it will be trapped and filtered before hitting the water column. It's honestly not as big of a deal as this may make it sound but some like myself do high volume reloading and dumping it in the same place repeatedly with no thought of its effect could create issues over time. Just use some basic common sense not dumping it in your yard next to your po d or a stream. If you only shoot a couple thousand rounds a yr its likely not an issue 20-50k+ like many action pistol multi gun is a different story IMO.

Consider that between the 60s thru 80s the 90% of the US population had lead levels of 5ug/dL or more. Leaded fuel, paint etc. Levels in the teens was very common. That was without regular shooting/reloading etc.

I am just now dipping my toe into bullseye shooting. Up till now its been service/combat and action pistol and multi gun competition starting in the mid 80s as a young teen my uncle introduced and mentored me. Now I have more time and have been wanting to get involved in bullseye for a number of years. It's very foreign to me in many ways which is exciting.

I personally have time I chose to use for more extended handloading time. I find it relaxing. Given that, I decap, tumble SS pin wash with dawn and citric acid (we have food grade as we do alot of canning) or Lemi Shine Booster. I have used both. Lemi smells good. Then lube cases with Alcohol:Lanolin 10:1. (In the past used 1:1 STP:Hoppes #9. Loved the smell) Thru a ring die, size, trim, and flare. Tumble wash again to remove lube (no ss pins) automotive wash-n-wax. I find this adds a very micro thin layer of protection while removing the lanolin. Regardless of die coating I never size any case without lube. IME, less wear on press parts and more consistent sizing. Then prime, drop powder, bullet seat, crimp.

Last few years, I tend to run A Lee App Press with case feeder/ collator for decapping, push thru Lee FCD ring die, and bullet sizing. I run Hornday LnL AP and Dillon 650/750 for everything thats high vol. Usually use the LnL AP with it's case feeder and a couple Mag-P bullet feeder for high vol pistol 9mm/38 SC/45acp. It's so quick and easy to swap dies. First Stage: #1 Sizing, 2# Trimmer Dillon RT, 3# Flare/Expander. Second Stage: Prime, #1 Powder Drop, #2 Powder Check, #3 Bullet Feeder, #4 Bullet Seater, #5 Crimp I am certain there are more efficient systems people use. Right or wrong, optimized or not this is what has been working well for me. I do use HBN on the inside of rifle case necks, use to use graphite. Gives my more consistent seating pressure and I believe prevents cold welding/bonding between bullet and case neck. I think the small layer left of synth wax from the car wash-n-wax helps with the pistol brass.

My plan for bullseye loading my match ammo is to use a single stage press and my electronic scale powder dispenser to have higher precision on OAL & powder charge and virgin starline cases.

Someone had mentioned no luck finding the ingredient list for the Lemi Shine Booster. Here is the list but do not have ratios or concentrations, sorry.

Lemi Shine Dish Detergent Booster:

* Citral
* D-Limonene
* Citrus Limon (Lemon) Peel Oil
* Citrus Peel Extract
* Citric Acid

Personally, knowing the positive effect citrus oils have on cleaning Lemi Shine Booster seems a great choice All those compounds come from citrus peels. Citral I am guessing is used as the fragrance which is the lemon smell. D-Limonene is a solvent compound from the peel and is even used internally for treating acid reflux and to break up gallstones as it desolves cholesterol and other fatty acid compounds, industrial use to replace other toxic solvents. The last three ingredients seem self explanatory. Overall it all comes from citrus peel extracts as far as I can tell. Hope this is helpful.

The MSDS sheets for the zillion Lemishine products are online, with ratios etc, but many of them contain "trade secret" ingredients.

https://lemishine.com/pages/downloads

I have used all the Dlead products but the item I found that did the best was using Dawn liquid dish soap to wash my hands and face.

dannyd93140 wrote:I have used all the Dlead products but the item I found that did the best was using Dawn liquid dish soap to wash my hands and face.

How did you find out that liquid Dawn is more effective than D-Lead products?

BE Mike wrote:

dannyd93140 wrote:I have used all the Dlead products but the item I found that did the best was using Dawn liquid dish soap to wash my hands and face.

How did you find out that liquid Dawn is more effective than D-Lead products?

I used lead wipes (They detect presence of lead), same outcome with both products.