Front Sight Focus
+4
Al
SteveT
xmastershooter
SingleActionAndrew
8 posters
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Front Sight Focus
I've been contributing as a vision consultant for about 20 years now, starting with the original Bullseye-L. My reward has been receiving thanks from list members who put my suggestions into practice. My first couple of "thanks" were from a shooter in Washington and North Carolina, both who are members of this forum. Neither shooter used a +0.75 diopter add over their RX. I have never solicited for business and declined endorsing products so there were never any financial gains.
My original article on shooting and vision may be seen in Ed Hall's postings on shooting. The shooting add best for me at the time of my 2008 article was +0.75 D add. I recommended trying +0.50, +0.75 and +1.00D as a start. As the years went by, +0.75D add no longer worked for me. Seeing the front sight blurred along with the bulllseye blurred did not work for me at all. I do pride myself as a good listener especially when top shooters such as Brian Zins and Bill Blankenship speak... "Front Sight Focus!"
The human eye is not as rigid as we think. From experience, I no longer took into consideration the shooter's age, length of arm and pupil size during my bullseye exams. Charts and diagrams are not truly reflective on how we see all the time. For example, a teenager may have 15 diopters of accommodation and may struggle to maintain front sight focus. A 65 year old senior may still be able to accommodate 0.75 diopters. When I learned that prominent shooters who are national record holders and Camp Perry champions used the outer limits of suggested power add ranges, this was an eye opener for me. The shooter almost 60 years old used a +0.25 add while the shooter in his 30's used a +1.50 add.
I think for most, start with the best lens for front sight focus. If there is a problem with too much target blur, then back down in 0.25D steps. Two important factors should be considered, focus and fixation, which are two different things. Focus is the finest clarity possible with the proper lens. Fixation is directing your fovea onto the front sight. The fovea is the center of the macula in the retina where our images are directed, our line of sight. As long as the fixation is firm onto the front sight, a good shot can still be achieved. Fixation is just as important as focus.
Norman Wong, O.D.
My original article on shooting and vision may be seen in Ed Hall's postings on shooting. The shooting add best for me at the time of my 2008 article was +0.75 D add. I recommended trying +0.50, +0.75 and +1.00D as a start. As the years went by, +0.75D add no longer worked for me. Seeing the front sight blurred along with the bulllseye blurred did not work for me at all. I do pride myself as a good listener especially when top shooters such as Brian Zins and Bill Blankenship speak... "Front Sight Focus!"
The human eye is not as rigid as we think. From experience, I no longer took into consideration the shooter's age, length of arm and pupil size during my bullseye exams. Charts and diagrams are not truly reflective on how we see all the time. For example, a teenager may have 15 diopters of accommodation and may struggle to maintain front sight focus. A 65 year old senior may still be able to accommodate 0.75 diopters. When I learned that prominent shooters who are national record holders and Camp Perry champions used the outer limits of suggested power add ranges, this was an eye opener for me. The shooter almost 60 years old used a +0.25 add while the shooter in his 30's used a +1.50 add.
I think for most, start with the best lens for front sight focus. If there is a problem with too much target blur, then back down in 0.25D steps. Two important factors should be considered, focus and fixation, which are two different things. Focus is the finest clarity possible with the proper lens. Fixation is directing your fovea onto the front sight. The fovea is the center of the macula in the retina where our images are directed, our line of sight. As long as the fixation is firm onto the front sight, a good shot can still be achieved. Fixation is just as important as focus.
Norman Wong, O.D.
xmastershooter- Posts : 259
Join date : 2011-06-10
Founder, Jack H, jwax, CR10X, Krogen, sharkdoctor, x90rider and like this post
Re: Front Sight Focus
Dr Wong, thank you for sharing more insights. Does the diopter also affect fixation?
SingleActionAndrew- Admin
- Posts : 670
Join date : 2019-11-19
Location : IL, USA
Re: Front Sight Focus
Very good question. The power of the shooting lens add does not affect fixation. In fact, the recent topic of Glasses for Bullseye in the Equipment section showed a video "Front Sight Focus" by the Navy Seal which erroneously discussed "focus" but in realty was discussing "fixation." In the exercises described, one can still elicit the peripheral fading even if the central point was not in focus. This was a demonstration known as the Troxler Effect.
xmastershooter- Posts : 259
Join date : 2011-06-10
SingleActionAndrew and RADJAG like this post
Re: Front Sight Focus
Thank you Norman. You have a lot more experience than me.
RADJAG likes this post
eye doctoring
Really good to see you posting again Norman. Your posts from the old list were always full of valuable information, you didn't lower the bar this time either.
Al
Al
Al- Posts : 650
Join date : 2011-06-10
Age : 69
Location : Bismarck, ND
RADJAG likes this post
Re: Front Sight Focus
Norman, good to hear from you again!
I realized recently that my problem is not focusing on the front sight, it's keeping the focus on the front sight (or any particular point) for a long time. I definitely need to see a doctor about this issue, but in the meantime I try to break the shot as early as possible, before my focus starts wandering off. It is especially noticeable for some reason when I shoot 10m air pistol, but I can see this being an issue at 25 yards as well, not so much at 50 though.
I use +0.50D over my prescription lens. Guess I'll try +0.75 too.
I realized recently that my problem is not focusing on the front sight, it's keeping the focus on the front sight (or any particular point) for a long time. I definitely need to see a doctor about this issue, but in the meantime I try to break the shot as early as possible, before my focus starts wandering off. It is especially noticeable for some reason when I shoot 10m air pistol, but I can see this being an issue at 25 yards as well, not so much at 50 though.
I use +0.50D over my prescription lens. Guess I'll try +0.75 too.
Re: Front Sight Focus
Hi Javaduke, the +0.75 upgrade will allow a more stable sight picture for you, at least a few years. You're still a young guy. There will come a time when the +0.75 will not work as well. You will then have a choice of seeing the the front sights blurred along with the bullseye or upgrade to a +1.00 add. The front sights will then become clear once again and the bullseye will become more blurred. You will still be able to shoot well if you won't let that bother you. Good sight alignment will still be key to your good shots.
xmastershooter- Posts : 259
Join date : 2011-06-10
Re: Front Sight Focus
starreloaders.com/edhall/nwongarts.html
Sir
Just referenced some of your work in Equipment. Thanks for the contribution.
Best,
Arthur
Sir
Just referenced some of your work in Equipment. Thanks for the contribution.
Best,
Arthur
Arthur- Posts : 155
Join date : 2018-09-15
Re: Front Sight Focus
My right eye distance lens is -.75. If I double on a +1.00 reader, it works very good.
Although I am overdue on my eye exam schedule.....
Although I am overdue on my eye exam schedule.....
Jack H- Posts : 2693
Join date : 2011-06-10
Age : 75
Location : Oregon
Re: Front Sight Focus
Hi Jack, essentially, you are using a +1.00D add for your shooting eye. Are you using center hold, 6 O'clock hold or sub 6?
xmastershooter- Posts : 259
Join date : 2011-06-10
Re: Front Sight Focus
Hi Arthur, thank you for posting the link to my articles pertaining to bullseye. Please click onto "Iron Sight Visual Perception Under The Open Sun." This is the only consensus I know which describe in detail of how some of the top shooters see and what they use.
We cannot discuss iron sight focus along with the ideal shooting lens add without also including apertures and the type of hold into the conversation. Shooting with iron sights is an art which has been disappearing after the introduction of the red dot scopes. This article was a survey about the need to adjust the windage as the sun changes position throughout the day. I also asked a number of questions pertaining to age, the distance from the eye to the front sight, the shooting add used if needed, use of aperture, and the use of center mass hold or 6 O'clock hold or sub-6 hold. The shooting add is not as simplistic as one may think and one add does not appear to fit all. This article is a long read but a rewarding one. Here's a quick summary.
Results of the shooting add power: Some may use different powers depending on target distance
3 Don't know
3 None
1 +0.25
3 +0.50
1 +0.75
3 +1.00
1 +1.25
Type of Hold: Some used different holds depending on discipline or target distance
10 Center Mass
6 6 O'clock
5 Sub-6
2 Line of white
Use of Aperture:
9 No
5 Yes
It appears that there's no one power add the majority of the shooters used. Center mass hold was used by the majority and several used an aperture. These two factors would allow the use of higher shooting add powers. John Bickar has said sight alignment is key and he doesn't care much about the bullseye blob when using center mass hold. Cecil Rhodes, we all know as a valuable contributor to this forum, did not use a shooting add at the time of this survey but from his recent postings, he is using add(s) now.
I hope this shed some light to discussions about the shooting adds while shooting iron sights, types of holds and use of apertures by elite shooters. On a humorous departing note, don't get pissed off after shooting a bad shot or a string during sustained fire. Your pupils dilate when upset and would adversely affect your sight picture.
Norman Wong, O.D.
We cannot discuss iron sight focus along with the ideal shooting lens add without also including apertures and the type of hold into the conversation. Shooting with iron sights is an art which has been disappearing after the introduction of the red dot scopes. This article was a survey about the need to adjust the windage as the sun changes position throughout the day. I also asked a number of questions pertaining to age, the distance from the eye to the front sight, the shooting add used if needed, use of aperture, and the use of center mass hold or 6 O'clock hold or sub-6 hold. The shooting add is not as simplistic as one may think and one add does not appear to fit all. This article is a long read but a rewarding one. Here's a quick summary.
Results of the shooting add power: Some may use different powers depending on target distance
3 Don't know
3 None
1 +0.25
3 +0.50
1 +0.75
3 +1.00
1 +1.25
Type of Hold: Some used different holds depending on discipline or target distance
10 Center Mass
6 6 O'clock
5 Sub-6
2 Line of white
Use of Aperture:
9 No
5 Yes
It appears that there's no one power add the majority of the shooters used. Center mass hold was used by the majority and several used an aperture. These two factors would allow the use of higher shooting add powers. John Bickar has said sight alignment is key and he doesn't care much about the bullseye blob when using center mass hold. Cecil Rhodes, we all know as a valuable contributor to this forum, did not use a shooting add at the time of this survey but from his recent postings, he is using add(s) now.
I hope this shed some light to discussions about the shooting adds while shooting iron sights, types of holds and use of apertures by elite shooters. On a humorous departing note, don't get pissed off after shooting a bad shot or a string during sustained fire. Your pupils dilate when upset and would adversely affect your sight picture.
Norman Wong, O.D.
xmastershooter- Posts : 259
Join date : 2011-06-10
Arthur likes this post
Re: Front Sight Focus
xmastershooter wrote:Hi Jack, essentially, you are using a +1.00D add for your shooting eye. Are you using center hold, 6 O'clock hold or sub 6?
I never set myself into a by-the-book plan. Ranges, lighting, Me, can change when shooting irons.
But usually I shoot sub 6 where the white above the sight equals the cracks on the side. THis sort of frames the front sight. It does depend some on lighting conditions. I believe this frame idea parallels your concentric circles with the dot.
50 years ago with naked eye, I could see the color and texture on the front sight. When light on the sights and target were ideal, the x ring was in peril. I wish I could have continued my drive towards Freepistol PTOs.
Jack H- Posts : 2693
Join date : 2011-06-10
Age : 75
Location : Oregon
Re: Front Sight Focus
I am curious if there is similar a lighting effect in air pistol with bright electronic targets similar to bright sun on targets in bullseye? Although I only have a lens for an astigmatism, it seems like front sight and focus issues are magnified on the electronics compared to paper outdoors.
lyoke- Posts : 134
Join date : 2015-07-12
Location : Southwest Florida
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