New to Bullseye

by CentralPA22 2/19/2023, 7:50 am

Hi all, thank you for taking the time to read this and possibly point me in the right direction. I am a 46 yr old Father and love to shoot .22 pistols. Currently shoot a local "Bullseye pistol league". Used parenthesis because we shoot 2 handed and have heard to shoot it correctly you use 1 hand. Anyhow, what my son and I currently shoot for a pistol is a Volquartsen Mamba. My son loves the pistol and I wouldn't mind upgrading to something like the Pardini SP bullseye. I've never shot one or even had the chance to hold one properly. I like the looks and the reviews are all good. When looking on the Pardini USA website there seems to be a few different options and we have no idea what the model numbers indicate. Am I jumping in way too fast for a model like this? Should I be looking at a different gun? They aren't cheap and it would be nice to find something in the used market as well. What's the difference between rapid fire models and SP? We live in Central Pennsylvania and I would love to be able to handle and shoot -with guidance- one of these pistols. Thank you for any help and direction.

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by SingleActionAndrew 2/19/2023, 9:41 am

The RF trim of the SP22 is a configuration more aligned to Men's 25m Rapid Fire (ISSF, Olympics). The BE ("Bullseye") trim is aligned to our sport.

Jumping too fast? Maybe, but buy-once cry-once. You need a 2nd gun so you can both shoot at the same time.

by CrankyThunder 2/20/2023, 5:47 am

HI Central PA:

The difference between the Rapid Fire, SP New, and SP Bullseye edition is the weight of the bolt.

The Rapid fire has the lightest bolt and fastest cycle time. It is also technically the least accurate of the three and has the heaviest recoil.

The SP New (non bullseye edition) has a slightly heavier bolt.

The SP New Bullseye edition has the heaviest bolt, the slowest cycle time, and is technically the most accurate of the three. It also has the softest recoil.

I own the bullseye edition and have shot a rapid fire model. I could not tell the difference in cyclic rates because we are talking miliseconds. I did notice a big difference in the recoil.

As for the accuracy, the only people that I know that have tested the different accuracy of the three models is Pardini USA and from what I understand, shot a handful of rounds using a single type of ammunition such that I would not call it a conclusive test.

With that being said, you want the Bullseye edition.

Now with respect the barrel length, they offer a 5 inch barrel, a 6 inch barrel, and a 5 inch barrel with compensators.

First off the 5 inch barrel with compensators gets filled up with crud, is difficult to clean, and accuracy will drop off as the crud accumulates in the compensator. You do not want the compensator barrel.

Now as for the 5 inch barrel or the 6 inch barrel, I have tried both of them extensively. I shoot better scores with the shorter barrel consistently. What I believe happens is that the longer barrel has the bullet in the barrel such that it will exaggerate any deficiencies in the trigger pull. IE, you pull the trigger a little bit sideways, the 6 inch barrel will toss that shot in the 7 ring wheras the 5 inch barrel will put it in the 8 ring.

With that being said, you want the 5 inch barrel.

For what it is worth, I have been shooting my Pardini since I purchased it new i 2013. I have also assisted quite a number of new shooters, introducing them to Bullseye Competition and helping them get the firearm competition ready, assisting with the Red Dot purchase, installation of the red dot, and trouble shooting misbehaving pistols. Please do not do what most other newbies do when they purchase their first bullseye pistol. That is, within a half hour of shooting their pistol they realize that they need a red dot and go to the nearest chain store and purchase a red dot, and getting disappointed when it does not perform to the level required even by a new shooter in Bullseye.

Hope this helps and you probably have a bunch of questions, feel free to PM me for further assistance.

Regards,
Crankster

by jimsteele 2/20/2023, 6:18 am

I bought the SP Bullseye edition with 5 inch barrel (Pardini). It is well suited to bullseye shooting. Reliable, accurate, easy to clean, expensive, over $3000. I like it a lot.
But...if I were in your shoes, I would consider buying a Marvel or Nelson conversion and a .45. That would provide you with two more pistols for less than the price of a Pardini.. Besides, you need a .45 for a proper bullseye match anyway.
At least you "WILL" if you continue down this road. Laughing

AHah, I see you got a msg. from cranky thunder. He was very helpful to me when I was considering a Pardini.

by chiz1180 2/20/2023, 6:58 am

A Pardini is not the end be all of bullseye 22s, but it can be a solid option. If you can find a well attended match close to you, chances are high that someone will have one that you could at least look at and possibly try after the match.

Something that has not been mentioned yet about the pardini is that the ejector is part of the magazine. Nothing wrong with the this but you need to be aware and treat the mags with care.

For what it is worth, I tried a pardini, wasn’t really my thing.

by RADJAG 2/20/2023, 9:10 am

Foreword - I own several Pardini's. My best match scores have indeed been achieved with various model Pardini's. I doubt that I will move away from Pardini's for match 22 Bullseye pistols.

IMHO. They are excellent. Very easy to clean. Very reliable and consistent (but you need to replace springs and other parts regularly and those parts are not cheap), but the purchase cost of the gun is an indication of the "total cost of ownership", so do not be surprised that you need to replace parts every 5,000 rounds or so.

The triggers are very good - tricky to adjust to get them just right - but truly excellent when adjusted properly. Some say that a 208 2 stage is better - who knows what is the "truth".

With a Bullseye New model the recoil management is very good. I also own a very good Marvel Conversion built by David Sams, and have owned several other conversions in the past. IMHO the Pardini has superior recoil management and therefore edges out the conversion in TF and RF. During 2022 I trained seriously with both guns (both fitted with Aimpoint 9000 red dots) and my best conversion scores were just slightly lower than the Pardini. I am not an Elite shooter. YMMV.

But. The Pardini anatomical grip has to be adjusted & modified to best suit your hand if you want to really get the best out of the gun. I have custom Rink "upright" grips - not cheap and they still require a lot of fiddling to get them close to optimum.

Having said all of that. I agree with jimsteele above, that, in terms of "bang for the buck", I would recommend that the OP gets a well built conversion and also a decent 1911 45, for less than the total cost of a Pardini SP22. The primary advantage is that with 1911 slab grips both OP and his son can easily handle both guns interchangeably.

Frerking Custom Works offers ready built conversions - with a variety of rib/sight options. RRA (and maybe FCW) offer similarly "ready to go" 1911 45's at similar prices. There are other vendors - just my suggestion.

by CentralPA22 2/20/2023, 1:24 pm

CrankyThunder wrote:HI Central PA:

The difference between the Rapid Fire, SP New, and SP Bullseye edition is the weight of the bolt.

The Rapid fire has the lightest bolt and fastest cycle time. It is also technically the least accurate of the three and has the heaviest recoil.

The SP New (non bullseye edition) has a slightly heavier bolt.

The SP New Bullseye edition has the heaviest bolt, the slowest cycle time, and is technically the most accurate of the three. It also has the softest recoil.

I own the bullseye edition and have shot a rapid fire model. I could not tell the difference in cyclic rates because we are talking miliseconds. I did notice a big difference in the recoil.

As for the accuracy, the only people that I know that have tested the different accuracy of the three models is Pardini USA and from what I understand, shot a handful of rounds using a single type of ammunition such that I would not call it a conclusive test.

With that being said, you want the Bullseye edition.

Now with respect the barrel length, they offer a 5 inch barrel, a 6 inch barrel, and a 5 inch barrel with compensators.

First off the 5 inch barrel with compensators gets filled up with crud, is difficult to clean, and accuracy will drop off as the crud accumulates in the compensator. You do not want the compensator barrel.

Now as for the 5 inch barrel or the 6 inch barrel, I have tried both of them extensively. I shoot better scores with the shorter barrel consistently. What I believe happens is that the longer barrel has the bullet in the barrel such that it will exaggerate any deficiencies in the trigger pull. IE, you pull the trigger a little bit sideways, the 6 inch barrel will toss that shot in the 7 ring wheras the 5 inch barrel will put it in the 8 ring.

With that being said, you want the 5 inch barrel.

For what it is worth, I have been shooting my Pardini since I purchased it new i 2013. I have also assisted quite a number of new shooters, introducing them to Bullseye Competition and helping them get the firearm competition ready, assisting with the Red Dot purchase, installation of the red dot, and trouble shooting misbehaving pistols. Please do not do what most other newbies do when they purchase their first bullseye pistol. That is, within a half hour of shooting their pistol they realize that they need a red dot and go to the nearest chain store and purchase a red dot, and getting disappointed when it does not perform to the level required even by a new shooter in Bullseye.

Hope this helps and you probably have a bunch of questions, feel free to PM me for further assistance.

Regards,
Crankster

Thank you for the excellent information and taking the time to respond. What would you recommend for a proper red dot?

by CentralPA22 2/20/2023, 1:27 pm

RADJAG wrote:Foreword - I own several Pardini's. My best match scores have indeed been achieved with various model Pardini's. I doubt that I will move away from Pardini's for match 22 Bullseye pistols.

IMHO. They are excellent. Very easy to clean. Very reliable and consistent (but you need to replace springs and other parts regularly and those parts are not cheap), but the purchase cost of the gun is an indication of the "total cost of ownership", so do not be surprised that you need to replace parts every 5,000 rounds or so.

The triggers are very good - tricky to adjust to get them just right - but truly excellent when adjusted properly. Some say that a 208 2 stage is better - who knows what is the "truth".

With a Bullseye New model the recoil management is very good. I also own a very good Marvel Conversion built by David Sams, and have owned several other conversions in the past. IMHO the Pardini has superior recoil management and therefore edges out the conversion in TF and RF. During 2022 I trained seriously with both guns (both fitted with Aimpoint 9000 red dots) and my best conversion scores were just slightly lower than the Pardini. I am not an Elite shooter. YMMV.

But. The Pardini anatomical grip has to be adjusted & modified to best suit your hand if you want to really get the best out of the gun. I have custom Rink "upright" grips - not cheap and they still require a lot of fiddling to get them close to optimum.

Having said all of that. I agree with jimsteele above, that, in terms of "bang for the buck", I would recommend that the OP gets a well built conversion and also a decent 1911 45, for less than the total cost of a Pardini SP22. The primary advantage is that with 1911 slab grips both OP and his son can easily handle both guns interchangeably.

Frerking Custom Works offers ready built conversions - with a variety of rib/sight options. RRA (and maybe FCW) offer similarly "ready to go" 1911 45's at similar prices. There are other vendors - just my suggestion.

Thank you for the great information! There are a lot of options and no one in our bullseye group shoots the Pardini. Tough to make the investment without shooting or handling one. The spring maintenance And parts replacement is something I would not have been aware of. Thank you

by CentralPA22 2/20/2023, 1:38 pm

SingleActionAndrew wrote:The RF trim of the SP22 is a configuration more aligned to Men's 25m Rapid Fire (ISSF, Olympics). The BE ("Bullseye") trim is aligned to our sport.

Jumping too fast? Maybe, but buy-once cry-once. You need a 2nd gun so you can both shoot at the same time.

Exactly! My whole goal is to get my son shooting more and eventually give him the Pardini. We really enjoy the sport and hoping the entire family starts shooting as well. Crossing my fingers to find one used for a decent price- Hopeful

by CrankyThunder 2/20/2023, 8:51 pm

Hey guys, I try not to be a Pardini Fanboi but it is difficult since they produce such a quality product. I recognize their shortcomings (high cost, problems mounting a red dot for instance) but I really like mine and really have been shooting it without problems for over ten years.

Now I like shooting bullseye. I shoot up to four matches a week and purchase between 10,000 and 20,000 rounds of ammo a year. granted I shoot other firearms but 90 percent of that goes through the Pardini. Best that I can figure out, I got 150,000 rounds throught the pardini, probably more.

Alibi's: this pistol keeps on functioning despite my neglect. I have had a couple alibi's, namely duds or low power rounds that did not cycle the action. Now let that sink in there for a moment. with 150,000 rounds through the pistol I have not had a non ammo related alibi.

Replacement parts? Ok, I neglect it. probably should have changed the mainspring, trigger pin spring, and a couple of magazine springs. What I have changed is a magazine base plate when I dropped the mag on the concrete and the recoil buffer which was cracked but immediately cracked after I replaced it. That was about 40 or 50 thousand rounds ago and it does not seam to matter. I did have a problem with light strikes on the brass but the firing pin chamber in the bolt was all crudded up and cleaning that out fixed the issue. more of a loose nut on the trigger issue as opposed to a firearm shortcomming.

As to radjag, still running the original springs. Might have something to do with the cracked recoil buffer but I am reluctant to mess with it.

Cleaning? 2000 rounds and still going strong although I could not allow myself to neglect it for any longer.

Yes the ejector is on the magazine. gotta understand that when you remove the magazine and cycle the bolt, it will not remove the round in the chamber. Different then the 1911 yes. shouldn't we be using the ECI to make sure the line is safe?

Now think about the ejector. it is a high wear item that needs to be monitored and repaired or replaced on a regular basis. with the ejector on the pardini on the magazine, a simple mag swap will fix any ejector malfunctions although I have yet to experience that.

Trigger adjustment: shoot me a pm with your email. I have a nice library collected off of this site that fully explains the pardini trigger adjustment in language you can understand with simple diagrams. I agree the Italian trigger adjustment instructions in the manual are worthless, but the information is out there and I will be happy to get it to you.

Does anybody have detailed and simple trigger adjustment instrutions for my Feinwerkbau AW 093? That is another awesome pistol I own but do not shoot it too much because the grip is too big for me and cannot make it smaller due to the magazine in the grip.

by RADJAG 2/21/2023, 3:30 am

George,

Well, yes, I am also up in hundreds thousand of 22 rounds in four years. I also have had very few duds or failures. I keep the Pardini reasonably clean. Other owners I know have had some problems. That led to investigation, discussion with Pardini USA and the discovery that springs do get shorter with extensive use. Best to check and swap (annually?) IMHO.

It is a different story with HP32SWL and, even worse, HP32ACP. Those need to be kept very clean and springs, extractor, etc need to be replaced more frequently, IMHO. But those Center-fire guns were not the OP's question, excuse me for elaborating.

by BruceV 2/21/2023, 8:22 am

I also shoot Pardini and really like it. All of us Pardini owners are going to be somewhat biased. The OP thinks he may want a Pardini, very understandable, there are a lot of top shooters using them, and there a lot of top shooters who are not.

First thing while I'm thinkin about it, he spoke about getting a good used one - they are out there but they cost just about as much as a new one so I personally would not go in that direction.

They are a well built gun, once familiar with it in fact very easy gun to clean and take apart.

Many and actually most owners don't have any real problems with them. I have found (my experience) keeping the gun clean and well maintained is the key. Well maintained - I change out the recoil spring at about every 7,500 rounds - don't care if it looks perfect, I just do it. I replace the o-rings in the bolt at 10,000 rounds again don't care if they look perfect.

It's not just that it is an expensive gun, but if you are willing to pay the cost of one you are probably a serious shooter and having it fail during a match is not fun. Then not to make it sound bad - on occasion Pardini USA has been out of stock of the most normal wear items.

The folks at Pardini are awesome but they do run into import issues on occasion. My point here if you buy one - they offer a nice emergency kit that has a spare recoil spring - firing pin and spring - extractor and spring.

And if you are going to shoot in matches you might as well decide how many magazines you want to go with and get them when you purchase the gun. Again better to have them than not. They as well are not exactly cheap.

Red dots others have spoken about - if you buy a new Pardini they do offer a package - comes with an UltraDot MatchDot II and better scope rings and 1 extra magazine, might be the way to go - and no they don't mount the scope - they will but they charge extra - my opinion not needed.

Lastly in my experience - I shoot around 25,000 rounds a year through it, the only real nagging problem I've had with it - the magazines don't like CCI standard velocity. Now saying that I use CCI 90% of the time, I don't in matches. CCI is typically the longest .22 ammunition on the market - they use a heavier lube on the bullet - Pardini magazines are designed for Euro ammunition which is shorter.

So in my experience almost always the 2nd round hangs up in the magazine and fails to feed - if it is going to happen at all - and typically more inclined to happen in the colder months - lube gets stiff - magazines are cold.

I keep the magazines warm and have zero problems - no altering the magazines - no wiping down the bullets - no putting oil on the first round.

I have other target .22 guns - but at the end of the day - I only shoot the Pardini.

Good luck and don't hesitate to post up questions - this place is awesome.

by WillH 2/21/2023, 10:33 am

I recently bought a Pardini and have been pleased with it as well. Just a few things about it that haven't yet been covered above but I think are worth a mention.

Pardini offers conversion kits for center-fire: In the event you're interested in shooting CF, they offer conversion kits for 32 S+W long and 32 ACP. These kits offer the benefit of shooting the center fire using the same frame containing the trigger and optics. Along with my purchase I also got the 32 S+W kit. I like it because the 22 and 32 have very comparable shooting feel. There are also some cons related to going with a Pardini conversion but won't get into them yet unless hearing back there is interest to hear my opinions on that.

The stock Pardini grip angle is comparable to competition level air pistols: I shoot 10m AP league and have a Steyr Evo 10e. I have found that the trigger time on the air pistol carries over well into the Pardini platform (better than let's say 1911) because the grip angle and ergonomics feel similar. I think that would be the case with most competition level air pistols like Morini, Walther, FWB, Hammerli, etc. Trigger pull weights are obviously different but the overall movement and feel is comparable. This may be relevant if you already shoot air or might want to in the future.

Pardini can mount your optic: When I bought mine I asked them to mount the Ultradot that came with the set. I did this because of reading here and elsewhere that some had issues with it loosening over time. They did a great job on mine and the small fee they charged seemed worth it to me and got lost in the math of the oder as a whole. I also asked them to set my trigger a certain way and have been happy with that as well.

My last comment is that I have other 22s including a Ruger Mk3 and Marvel 1911 conversions. I like all of them but prefer to shoot the Pardini for the most part. The main difference to me seems that the Pardini recoil system (and overall ergonomics) allows the sights to stay in the black longer and I feel less rushed in sustained fire stages. That along with the transfer with AP I think has helped my scores. However, the Marvel 22 conversion is also very nice and provides a good companion and trainer for the 1911 45 when that is needed.

by chiz1180 2/21/2023, 10:50 am

CentralPA22 wrote:
SingleActionAndrew wrote:The RF trim of the SP22 is a configuration more aligned to Men's 25m Rapid Fire (ISSF, Olympics). The BE ("Bullseye") trim is aligned to our sport.

Jumping too fast? Maybe, but buy-once cry-once. You need a 2nd gun so you can both shoot at the same time.
Exactly! My whole goal is to get my son shooting more and eventually give him the Pardini. We really enjoy the sport and hoping the entire family starts shooting as well. Crossing my fingers to find one used for a decent price- Hopeful

Unsure the age of you son, however if he/you would like to explore issf disciplines (standard pistol/men's rapid) as wells as bullseye, the pardini would be the best choice available. Competitions at the collegiate level are issf based.

by dieselguy624 2/21/2023, 7:18 pm

Not sure where in central PA you are located but the William Penn Pistol League that is in South central PA (Harrisburg area) is a strong local league. Good group of folks and you could see and maybe handle the gamut of target pistols. Most folks are happy to share their knowledge/opinions especially to new bullseye shooters.

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