Alternatives to a spotting scope

My first outdoor 2700 with the new pistol (Ruger Mark IV Target) is in the books.  

Overall, I am not put out by the results (509-3X, 492-3X, 570-2X :: 1571-8X) and plan to treat it as a baseline.  I did a quick analysis of my scores and was not surprised to learn I lost the most points on the long line.  This gives me something specific to work on.

My pistol is sighted in at 25 yards but this was the first time I'd shot 50 yards with her.  Since I mainly shoot indoors, I haven't had the opportunity to figure out how many clicks up/down I need when I switch between 50y and 25y.  I was reluctant to make an adjustment in the match because ... I did not have a spotting scope.  Which makes it rather difficult to judge the results of a sight adjustment before the end of the string.  Especially when one is new to the whole game.

Searching through various posts on spotting scopes leads me to believe (right or wrong) that a decent/workable scope is going to be $200-500 and even then other scopes will laugh at it and call it names and not let it play any bullseye games.  (<<=== attempt at humor)

So, are there any inexpensive alternatives to a spotting scope?  Will binoculars or a rifle scope work?  Am I missing something obvious?

And (dumbest question of all) how does one safely use a scope or similar device while wearing shooting glasses over prescription glasses?

An inexpensive scope will do the trick.  $100 on Amazon, cheaper if youu shop around. Use it to verify impact with first few shots then quit looking.  CONCETRATE on the next shot, not the last one.

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=celestron+landscout&hvadid=409997164511&hvdev=t&hvlocphy=9017005&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=204662803486668551&hvtargid=kwd-81545362041&hydadcr=19109_11276355&tag=googhydr-20&ref=pd_sl_4vh1bpwftf_e

If you’re shooting an optic there is an idea that might help. The drop from 25 yards for a 22 pistol is about 2 to 2-1/4 inches. Or from “center X” to just below the “X line” at 6 o clock. So, if your 25 yard zero is set to just above the printed “X” in the center, the center of your group will be on the “X-line” at 50…. So, at your level, rest your gun wrist on a sand bag and get a good zero as described for your 22 at 25 then leave the sights alone. Yes you could lose points from low shots, but youll lose more points from moving your sights and losing the basic zero of your pistol. When you can hold the ten ring 7 shots out of 10 at 50, then worry about being centered up…. That’s for 22s.

For the 45, a 200 SWC, The drop is 3 inches from 25 yards to 50. So that’s 6 MOA.

Iron sights are different.

Hmmm.

Whilst, theoretically, the numbers Wobbley quotes are undoubtedly true. In my recent experience, my guns shoot pretty flat between 25 and 50. Assuming that it is calm and temperate conditions. Both 45's (with ZERO 185JHP style ammo) and 22. (Don't ask about 32's - they are weird!!!)

22's, in particular, seem to be quite flat shooting (with a red dot sight).

I have found recently that the big effect is lighting condition (position of the sun, brightness, etc.) and of course wind, temperature and humidity.

Do you need a scope? Well I depend on one - it is another crutch that my mentor tells me to discard - but I am addicted!

If ever there was a case for YMMV in capital letters - this subject deserves it (Your Mileage May Vary - or in other more modern vernacular - WTFK?)

I find that with CCI SV .22, X ring at 25 is X ring at 50. Basically negligible drop and don't find any adjustment necessary.

For .45, you will have to bench check and figure it out for your particular ammo. Some shoot hotter loads for 50 yds than at 25, and some shoot the same. I find that four to five clicks up on an Ultradot gets it where it needs to be.

A ballistics table will show relevant bullet trajectory.  One must consider that the bullet starts below the sights, rises, then drops.  It varies then, if one uses irons versus a dot.  In practice, with a dot, sighted at 50 yds, the bullet might be a bit high or low at 25 yds, say ca. 0.5".  Usually not enough to require sight changes for us mere mortals.  People who crank their sights at the slightest provocation often are chasing their tails.  2 clicks of 1/2 MOA/click theoretically change POA 1/2" at 50 and 1/4" at 25 yds.  While a good zero is very important, 1/2" on a 5" group will help less than achieving a better hold and break.

You really don't need an expensive spotting scope for pistol shooting.  I have a cheap (~$75) Celestron Landscout that is perfectly fine.  I can see the .22 holes at 50 yards clearly without any problem.  For rifle @600 yards you need a decent scope but not for pistol.

There are adapters to connect your phone to the scope eyepiece.  I've had mixed results with these but it is always an option that will help see the target without having to worry about removing glasses etc.  I've used the phone eyepiece adapter during practice but not in a match so I'm not sure of the rules/restrictions of doing so....I know there is something about cell phone use but don't remember off the top of my head.

Something like https://www.amazon.com/Celestron-Landscout-12-36x60-Spotting-Smartphone/dp/B07JQCZ56P/ref=sr_1_5?crid=3D9ZA62HG392E&keywords=celestron%2Blandscout&qid=1684177745&sprefix=celestron%2Blandscout%2Caps%2C128&sr=8-5&th=1

Keith Sanderson famously showed up at Perry with a backpack and a pair of binoculars, so there you go (I think he still does!) Only thing I'll mention is that I have trouble seeing 22 holes at 50 yards with less than 20x magnification. So if you choose something other than a traditional spotting scope, keep that in mind!

Dave

$50 today (I paid $26 on sale a few years ago). Comes with the phone adapter. I'm not a "glass" enthusiast and those who are might puke at this scope, but I have no problem using this with Hebard mount on my bullseye box to scope 22lr at 50 yards.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07BTH769M

SaraiEsq wrote:........ I did a quick analysis of my scores and was not surprised to learn I lost the most points on the long line. ........

One of the things I've learned in this forum is to see things differently.  You can't "lose" what you don't yet have, and rather than be upset about the "bad shots" it is better to be pleased by the "good shots", and learn how to get more like them. 

Or, like if you get 9 shots in the X and one in the 6, think about and be happy about those 9 good shots, rather than dwelling on the bad shot.  Many people in this forum have taught me that - I don't know who I should give the credit to, but I'll say one thing for sure - at the end of the day, I am much happier thinking about the good, than stewing over the not-so-good, when I go. home.    :-)

Sorry for the interruption.  I wasn't going to post this, but I'm very glad now that people taught me this attitude long ago.

https://www.champchoice.com/mc-optics-sights/spotting-scopes/cc-12-45x50mm-straight-spotting-scope-12-12-w-3-cc-cc541wc

Champions Choice $130 spotting scope. I have been told they are ok. Some people use a photography tripod to mount a scope if they don't have the box yet. 
Bought the Kowa for myself $350, no magic found in it yet. 
Sometimes it's just better to buy the gear and get on with it. 

Best,
Arthur

mikemyers wrote:Or, like if you get 9 shots in the X and one in the 6, think about and be happy about those 9 good shots, rather than dwelling on the bad shot.  

Who are you, and what have you done with mikemyers?? You now, that guy that constantly wants to dwell on what he did wrong, rather than what he did right! 

Ha!  He is locked up in his old ChatGPt universe, from which he can not escape, along with many of his equally silly old ideas.

mikemyers wrote:Ha!  He is locked up in his old ChatGPt universe, from which he can not escape, along with many of his equally silly old ideas.

You saw the light…

https://youtu.be/Z0BbAqq_Xg4

DA/SA wrote:

mikemyers wrote:Or, like if you get 9 shots in the X and one in the 6, think about and be happy about those 9 good shots, rather than dwelling on the bad shot.  

Who are you, and what have you done with mikemyers?? You now, that guy that constantly wants to dwell on what he did wrong, rather than what he did right! 

Take "what he (you) did right" one step further. 

Think "Do This (shot) right.

Dudley

I believe I paid about $50 for a 20-60 x 60mm a couple of years ago.  I added a Longshot Hawk which now cost $250.  Link: Longshot Hawk.  The hawk attaches to the eyepiece of the spotting scope.  It has built-in WIFI that will hook up with your phone or a tablet.  I use a tablet.  You can zoom in on the phone or tablet screen, which is nice.  It also self centers on the spotting scope, which is much easier to use than one of the direct attachments with the cell phone adapters.  I use it at matches.  No problem.  The tablet I have is not cell capable, so I don't have to worry about incoming calls or texts.

Those who also shoot 10M air pistol should note many spotting scopes will not focus that close.  Here is one that I use, which does:

https://www.amazon.com/20-60X80-Spotting-Carrying-Shooting-Watching/dp/B091SS5N87

Relatedly I like to practice at longer distances (20-30Y) with the air pistol here on the rancho, using visible targets as below.  Not as precise as regulation targets but easy to see without a scope and fun

https://www.amazon.com/100-pack-Reactive-Splatter-Instantly/dp/B00AAORNHO/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=glow+target&qid=1684244362&sr=8-5

mikemyers wrote:

SaraiEsq wrote:........ I did a quick analysis of my scores and was not surprised to learn I lost the most points on the long line. ........

One of the things I've learned in this forum is to see things differently.  You can't "lose" what you don't yet have, and rather than be upset about the "bad shots" it is better to be pleased by the "good shots", and learn how to get more like them. 

Or, like if you get 9 shots in the X and one in the 6, think about and be happy about those 9 good shots, rather than dwelling on the bad shot.  Many people in this forum have taught me that - I don't know who I should give the credit to, but I'll say one thing for sure - at the end of the day, I am much happier thinking about the good, than stewing over the not-so-good, when I go. home.    :-)

Sorry for the interruption.  I wasn't going to post this, but I'm very glad now that people taught me this attitude long ago.

I was actually delighted by how the day went.  No dwelling on the bad shots here.  By the end of the day, I was counting the strings where every shot was on the repair center which saves a lot of masking tape. ;-)  There is a possibility that the survelliance video caught me dancing after turning in my score cards....

I am a serious nerd when it comes to data analysis so I compare strings about three or four different ways.  How does my first string of slow fire compare to my last SF string?  Am I getting better as the day progresses or worse?  If one string is wildly different, what did I change?  Did I shoot better with CCi SV or Aguila or Winchester?  It's a nice way to review the match and see where I could improve.

But, point taken.

JHHolliday wrote:using visible targets as below.  Not as precise as regulation targets but easy to see without a scope and fun

https://www.amazon.com/100-pack-Reactive-Splatter-Instantly/dp/B00AAORNHO/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=glow+target&qid=1684244362&sr=8-5

I've seen those at the range and am so tempted.  They look like fun!!!

Simply put you do need a spotting scope. You can confirm on the bullseye what you shot. But expensive scope is not necessary however the better the scope the "cleaner" the target looks as well as the bullet holes and .22 holes are the most difficult to see. As long as you can see the hole the bullet made in the target the scope is good enough. Later you can buy a better one. .22 Trajectory depends on velocity, height of sight over bore and actual movement of the adjustment assuming the bullet weight remains the same. You can guesstimate 50 yard adjustment from 25 yard impact but the scope will confirm what you did or what you did was in the correct direction. I can't begin to tell you how many times I've heard guys complain they turned the screw the wrong way. Better to have one wrong hit than 10! For example At Perry on 45 day the first shot Adam made at 50 yards was a 6! Not knowing if it was his error he shot again, another 6 in exactly the same place! Changed zero, shot good.  He then went on to win NMC, Timed and Rapid by acing the short line. The result was he came in second over all by an X! AMU was having problems with Aimpoint 9000 changing zero for no reason. Without the spotting scope he would have shot ten 6s!!

Once you get the scope, you'll have to start learning how to call your shots, or you'll just be guessing if using it to make sight adjustments during a match!

JHHolliday wrote:Those who also shoot 10M air pistol should note many spotting scopes will not focus that close.  Here is one that I use, which does:

https://www.amazon.com/20-60X80-Spotting-Carrying-Shooting-Watching/dp/B091SS5N87

I wonder if anyone have experience with Landove 20-60x80 versus Gosky 20-60x80 (updated version), and can share opinion on pros / cons.

Thank you, 

AP

I thought this Minox MD 50 was a great compact scope.






I was able to pay around $150.00 for like new used Minox scopes until recently. Now they are out of production and prices are ridiculous. However, the mounting ring is plastic, somehow it cracked, and Minox won't do anything to fix.  I did send it to Minox customer service.


Used this Vanguard in a 50 yard match, it worked just fine.  I think it was $150.00.




I am currently trying a Celestron Hummingbird, it is compact, very bright, focused down to 50 feet.  It is a 9X-27X and I actually like lower magnifications due to brightness and clarity. One shooting bud had a full sized rifle scope on his box. Might have been on 30X on the target. Hard to say he could spot bullets better, but at least the holes I saw were bigger. Larger lenses provide a clearer image at high magnifications, but eventually, mirage will wipe the image out.

You don't need to spend a lot for a scope that will spot 22/45 caliber holes at 50 yards.