"New Gun" syndrome...

My friend has a BEAUTIFUL S&W Model 52-2.  After I shot that 98 slow last week, he asked me to try it out and see if what I could do with his gun.

First shot felt good, and it took the 10 off the paper.  The next 4 were all in there too.  Threw that 7 and 8 in there, then settled down and drilled the last 3.

My friend asked me why I haven't bought a 52 for CF yet!  I told him that I had never shot a .38spl auto and didn't realize how easy it was to shoot them well.

I shot 3 more targets--all worse than the one before.

My friend  asked what the hell happened.  I told him "new gun syndrome".  When the subconscious wants you to see what the gun can do, and you get the extra focus on the front sight, you apply all the fundamentals, and you follow through.

New gun syndrome.  It just goes to show how mental this game is.  I should be a Master shooter based on how I shoot slow fire--but I can't engage the brain....at least not consistently...

Here's the target so that it really exists: http://sdrv.ms/1b8PeJK

Absolutely true.  I ran the first fifty targets in my life the first time I shot a Kreighoff K-80 trap gun.

Chip

True focus is lost. Plus, you begin to apply pressure to yourself.

That's the path to failure. 

Pick virtually any fundamental. Focus on it to the point of quieting the mind. Performance will generally improve.

If shooting the lighter calibers were the way to go, every national champion and the military would be shooting three guns, but 99% shoot the 45 for cf and 45. Why, cause its how they win. Its simple math, mastering two guns is simpler than mastering three. Its fun to shoot these pop guns, i had a clark 38 spl. and a tricked out beneli 32, after the new wore off i shot them no better than my 45. The by product of this that made my mind up to discontinue using them was my 45 scores went down from less trigger time with that gun.

Dewey is right on with the "apply pressure to yourself" being "the path to failure".

DavidR is also right--it just sucked that the "new" wore off after just 1 target....

I just had a long chat with a Marine Pistol team shooter.  His advice was surround yourself with the good targets to remind yourself "this is what you do".  Stick your best targets to the gun box lid.  In your garage.  In your car.  The targets are "what you do".  He also advised the written shot plan and a journal that describes the conditions of the match, what you ate, how much sleep you had, so if you have a good match, this is what happened.
It's the "this is what you do" and "this is how you do it".

That's funny. Usually, when I pick up a new or different pistol, I shoot it amazingly well the first 10 shots. The second 10 shots? Well, I go back to my bad habits and shoot back to normal. As usual with precision shooting, with the new gun your concentration level is high because your figuring out the gun. When you got it figured out then you shoot as per normal. Its all about tunnel vision. Same thing with trying too hard. You got a great slow fire going (slow is my problem), your totally into it. Nines and tens, maybe 1 eight. Your down to shot number 10 and you try to make the last shot perfect and where does it go? In the 5 ring or worse.  You so want to make the last shot perfect that you lose everything. Shooting is a mental game. And your brain is your worst enemy.

That is exactly what I am hoping that some of the masters can help us figure out:
How to get that mental performance that we get when we shoot a strange gun for the first time--how to achieve and maintain that extra-high sub-concious level of concentration ALL THE TIME.

Its called CONCENTRATION, you just have to practice it to the best of your ability for every shot.

Well, as I've said before.....

"When Can a Gun Buy You Points?
 

Just remember that if you pick up something new and automatically add 30 points to your score, it was probably you actually paying attention and watching the sights for a change.  That’s why gun shops with indoor ranges sell more guns and first dates are more fun. (Paying attention generally makes things better and more fun.  And see David Love's comments on having fun and learning.)  On the other hand, what you had before could have been a piece of crap, you might be able to see a dot better than open sights, the grip might fit better, etc.  But probably it was a better application of the fundamentals."  (So You Wanna Shoot Bullseye (c) 2007) 


But on the other hand I don't really think its concentation as much as simply performing as we have trained and seeing everything we need to see.  I think it may also be close to what Brian Enos and some other IPSC guys are getting to with the "Zen" thing as well.  Brian Zins once mentioned we don't have to "concentrate" any longer than it takes to get the shot off.  Just relax the rest of the time. 

I prefer to train rather than practice or concentrate.  I do train on many individual items such as, trigger press, seeing the dot rise, seeing the wobble pattern, etc.  Maybe that is concentration for some, but it would seem to limit us when we actually fire are shot.  What "exactly" are we going to "concentrate on" to the exclusion of all else to perform an acceptable shot?   I prefer to focus my eyes on the dot, but immerse myself in the whole process.  If everything is progressing normally, the shot will go off.  (Sometimes I can even see the muzzle flash through the ejector slot on the 1911 if it's a really good day.)   If anything doesn't progress, look, feel right (or acceptable), I get to abort the shot. (Usually I don't do enough of those, but I'm still learning).  Every not acceptable shot is generally me not aborting the shot because I've invested all that time into it already.  I really need to learn how to let some things go in order to score better.    

Cecil  


“Choose to have fun….
Fun creates enjoyment….
Enjoyment invites participation…
Participation focuses attention….
Attention promotes insight….
Insight generates knowledge….
Knowledge facilitates action….
Action yields results….”
Let’s have some fun….
Davis Love

in tonight's 900 league match, instead of saying in my head "pull straight through", I was saying "this is what you do" (to echo what the good targets are supposed to represent).  So instead of consciously focusing on fundamentals, I was thinking about the positive image of the good targets that I'm starting to post around my world.  I let the fundamentals just happen.
It was very relaxing.  I shot well.

You know Cecil theres more to it than that. You make it sound that all you have to do is use proper mental technique we all can be Brian Zins. Theres also a reason why there are High Masters and lifetime Experts. If that's all there is to it then everyone would be a master shooter. Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way. Proper coaching (and most coaches have really no idea whats happening) before the shooter develops bad
habits and quality equipment and ammo. That last part sometimes takes awhile to get due to cost and ability to reload properly. Proper amount of training time, availability of shooting many matches, that's another cost factor. The last and most important part is my own theory of "Either you have it or you don't". Its, I guess a genetic makeup thing, where your eye/hand coordination is so much better than everyone else. There will come a point where you will not get better no matter what you do.Everyone has their own personal ceiling.  THink about it, Zins scores haven't really changed that much, BUT he's so much better than everyone else that he keeps winning.  I read a Zins article one time when he first started training and he shot his first 100 slowfire, due to his instructor telling him to concentrate on the target differently. I had to laugh. I tried it and I think I shot a 50. Your a High Master so I guess you don't get it but that's why when you look at the score sheet, theres 2 high masters and 20 experts. Theres more to it than concentrating and a desire to do well.

tenx9 wrote:You know Cecil theres more to it than that. You make it sound that all you have to do is use proper mental technique we all can be Brian Zins. Theres also a reason why there are High Masters and lifetime Experts. If that's all there is to it then everyone would be a master shooter. Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way. Proper coaching (and most coaches have really no idea whats happening) before the shooter develops bad
habits and quality equipment and ammo. That last part sometimes takes awhile to get due to cost and ability to reload properly. Proper amount of training time, availability of shooting many matches, that's another cost factor. The last and most important part is my own theory of "Either you have it or you don't". Its, I guess a genetic makeup thing, where your eye/hand coordination is so much better than everyone else. There will come a point where you will not get better no matter what you do.Everyone has their own personal ceiling.  THink about it, Zins scores haven't really changed that much, BUT he's so much better than everyone else that he keeps winning.  I read a Zins article one time when he first started training and he shot his first 100 slowfire, due to his instructor telling him to concentrate on the target differently. I had to laugh. I tried it and I think I shot a 50. Your a High Master so I guess you don't get it but that's why when you look at the score sheet, theres 2 high masters and 20 experts. Theres more to it than concentrating and a desire to do well.

One must have certain things going for him, like good hand-eye coordination, good eyesight and a certain disposition. After that, if one trains with the proper fundamentals (a good coach helps) one can at least make master. The fact of the matter is that few people want to put in enough time, money and effort to excel to that level. One must also have a family that is willing to encourage the shooter and put up with the time away and financial sacrifice. It is a huge commitment for someone who isn't supported as are military shooters.

I think the notion of "either you have it or you don't" is exactly what this discussion is about.  If you were to analyze my shooting in competition, you would have to catagorize me as someone who "doesn't have it".

Take the mental part of the equation out of it, and I easily shoot 8 "easy" slow-fire tens on one of those tiny indoor targets.  This in not in competition, but it shows that I DO have the phyisical skill, but what is holding me back is mental or concentration related.  I would argue that those in the "don't have it" catagory are in the same boat--mental road blocks.

Written shot process is the mechanism to break down these road blocks.  It must be followed in order to make the routine routine.  This is what I am discovering is a common practice of master shooters and is something that I am going to work on in my development.

There is no time away or financial sacrifice to dry-firing.

I hope this is helpful...

Dear "tenx9" since we don't have a real name.

I will respectfully disagree with about all of your statements and in my on opinion most of them are why there are so many "Eternal Experts".  

Now please remember we were talking about picking up a "new" gun and shooting a better score.  When shooting to score, we are not training, should not be training and not even thinking about training, only about performing the shot.  I belive I mentioned that training concept in my post?  When shooting for score, we are performing and that is a totally different game and again why some may be doomed to shooting the same scores over and over again. Therefore when performing, being aware of everying possible, rather than "concentrating" on one thing to the exclusion of all, may be the better path to consistency.  This is a totally different subject than training to improve which I will cover below. 

Now I took up bullseye when I was over 40, spent most of my early years not being able to hit the barn door, etc, so I don't think anyone should hide behind that "have it or not" stuff.  When I started bulleye, I knew how to shoot because I had learned some things that applied and bullseye was just another shooting sport.  Much slower than the one I was in, but still shooting.   (As I will repeat later) I just needed to learn what I needed to see to shoot bullsye versus the other sports.  Each has a different level of acceptable time and sight picture, that's the only difference. And yes, I shot Marksman, Sharpshooter, Expert, and Master scores.  (The road to High Master is an entirely different experience and generally requires a different passport since we will travel through much unknown territory to get there - just joking its still the fundamentals, just darn near every time).

I am a fanatic about learning how to learn and seeing what needs to be seen. As far as getting "better" or getting high classification goes, that requires training and observation and application. If people can't see a hair on the front sight, can't find the center LED in a traffic light and keep focus on it for thiry seconds, can't make out the dot on the black, don't know what their wobble pattern looks like consistently, don't understand that everything happens at the gun, can't accurately call the shot or see the sights or dot lift off the target WILL be at a disavantage.  And dryfiring (which is cheap, locally available and can be done every day  --  got me thinking about someone I used to know) is the way to get there.  As Charles Atlas and a girl I used to know said "Give me 20 minutes a day and I'll make a new man out of you".   Well, give me 20 minutes of proper dryfire training a day and I'll make a master out of most anyone, if they commit to it and believe it can be done.  All those other things mentioned will either diminish or disappear (unless someone is really an complete idiot when it comes to reloading, and most people that really commit to making master are not in that group).  And you don't even have to reload,  you can learn to shoot at a master level with a .22.  

After making HM, I shot Master scores left handed when injured, and belive me, your left (off) side has no natural ability unless you have worked hard to put it there. What most people don't have is the committment to getting better.  And you can't buy that with money, reloading expertise, fancy guns or the best coach in the world.  When we go looking for excuses, we generally find one.

Zins' and Henderson's scores have changed a lot from the first time they picked up a gun as well.  The difference is that some people learn that you sometimes have to try something different to get different results. 

I believe that almost everyone, with the exception of certain physical disabilities, can shoot master score.   Again as I have said before....

Seeing is Believing!  
Another thing to do is to be sure to get placed beside a better shooter at the match so you can score them.  Seeing is believing and if you can see someone else shooting smaller groups then it just becomes a matter of getting your brain wrapped around the idea that you can do it as well.  I’ve come to the conclusion that almost everyone has the physical ability to shoot master level scores.  Anyone that is not progressing continuously towards that level has either doesn’t really care about improving, has given up, has fundamental technical errors in their shooting, can’t see, or has not mentally accepted that they are capable of that level of performance.
 
There is not much that can be done about the first two, if they have given up or don’t really care, they are probably not reading this anyway.   Fundamental errors and vision can be corrected if you know what you need to see and just get them fixed through training and equipment.  The last one though, that’s a tough one.  In order to shoot better scores, you HAVE to believe that you can shoot better scores.  And the best way I’ve seen to get started doing that is to really watch other people shooting better scores. (I think this is the biggest secret concerning how quickly shooters on the military teams improve and move up. They see good shooting all the time and it is expected as "normal". Think about it.)


Keep This in Sight 

One of the biggest problems I had to overcome and that I see so many other shooters have is developing the ability to See What You Need to See.  If you don’t, can’t or haven’t been getting consistently good calls on every shot; then you are not seeing what you need to see.  You better start figuring out what you need to see and how to see it than doing anything else at this point.  Front sight, sight alignment, dot, center of focus, wobble, hold pattern, whatever; if you are not getting 10’s then you ain’t seeing what you need to see.  If you can’t call that shot (live or dryfire) at the time of the hammer fall, you didn’t see what you needed to see.


How to Learn How to Shoot When You Can’t Shoot?
 
I hear so many shooters complain that they can live fire, don’t have a range where they can shoot every day, even say they could shoot better if they could shoot more. So what if you can’t live fire but once or twice a week, there are enough training items to cover to fill up a week or month without ever getting to the range.  What’s the point of shooting more, if you’re just jerking the trigger the same way every time?  It ain’t too smart to practice mediocrity, but I see it all the time.  You need to TRAIN.  And that means breaking down the process into its basic parts and getting good at each one of those parts.  Standing there taking 5 minutes per shoot going through a 27 step shot plan ain’t training (at least in my opinion); its an exercise in futility because you really can’t identify or work on any one specific thing that you need to improve to get better.  You’re just jerking, er, the trigger I mean.
 

Why don’t people train properly?  It’s just that shooting is fun and training is…well, like work.  It seems like you have to work for everything that’s really important.  I even hear about guys that complain about the cost of .22 ammunition because they shoot so much.  Again, if you’re shooting that much and you ain’t moving up in class as quick as Chris Johnson did, maybe ammo cost is not the solution.  

 
People will tell you to dryfire.  That is great advise, but too simplistic.  It’s like trying to get better at golf by just swinging at the ball.  You have to train on the individual parts of the process, find the weakness and work on that. Training with dry fire has so many variations it’s practically impossible to get to them all.  You are NOT just clicking the trigger and pointing the gun at the wall.
 

Dryfire training should mostly be on only one thing at a time.  Some examples are: (1) Hold on a blank wall with short and extended periods, (2) Hold on a point, vertical line or horizontal line for short and extended periods, (3) Trigger press in the dark, (4) Trigger press on a blank wall,  etc.  As you can see, there is not a target for these, we are just looking for feel and seeing what the sights do when the trigger is pressed.  The next step is actual dry firing with sight picture, but in different formats. (5) Raise and settle for sight alignment on a blank wall, then dry fire, (6) Dry fire on a blank wall and hold trigger back with full trigger press for 5 seconds, (7) Dry fire slow fire shots with double action revolver, double action (my favorite); etc., etc., etc.  Anyway, you can see there are many variations.  You just need to find out what you need to work on for your specific issues.  But we are either working on getting used to getting pistol into position or working on operating the trigger without disturbing the sights any more than the natural wobble area. But if you are using a dot or target to train on, always complete the trigger press, just like you would in real life.  Don't train to hold on a target, that's not what we want to do. 


So anyway, best wishes to you all on your path to the next classification.  To each his own opinion and please remember that the thoughts and  opinions stated above were mine alone.  I'll respect your right to have your own.  

Cecil Rhodes

Please keep in mind that the written word does NOT convey the tone and voice of this piece.  I am not preaching, or shouting or complaining or whining; think of me as your slightly inebriated uncle given you some tongue-in-cheek advise over a beer or 12.  If you can’t see the humor in some of this, well, maybe it’s you.  If you have differing opinion, please feel free to write your own stuff.  I’ll read it too. 

Well said, Cecil.

It is important to identify your weaknesses and attack them relentlessly in training, but it is equally important to identify your strengths and attack those almost as relentlessly.

When you work on something that you're good at and identify the things that it takes to become extraordinary at it, that carries over into the other areas that are not as strong, and builds the confidence that, "Yeah, I can do that!"

As Erich Buljung used to say, "The secret to success in this sport is a four-letter-word that ends in 'K'."

Cecil,
That is the best post I have ever seen on this forum!  Thank you for that.  I think it is helpful for everyone from Marksmen to Master.  This is one of those things that you need to continually reread because each time you read it you will understand something different depending on where you are at the time.

As someone who is at the high end of Master (my best two back to back matches this summer were 2611 and 2619) and working towards HighMaster I know how hard you have to work at this game.  It is not about equipment or ammo it is all about me.  What I need to do to improve.  But it is easier to look at equipment or ammo as the reason for improvement.  Posts in this forum for equipment and ammo out number fundamentals 7 to 1.  It should be the other way around.

Scott

Cecil, as a new bullseye shooter i have found it very hard to find advice and pointers from anyone. What you just wrote is the best thing i have read on the subject or heard from anyone. Thank you for taking the time to right all that

I'm really glad that my post spurred this collection of great Master/High Master posts!

Cecil, would you mind posting your dry fire variations with more detail on what you should see when you do each one as its own thread in the fundamentals category?

Cecil said, wrote:Seeing is Believing!  
Another thing to do is to be sure to get placed beside a better shooter at the match so you can score them.  Seeing is believing and if you can see someone else shooting smaller groups then it just becomes a matter of getting your brain wrapped around the idea that you can do it as well.  I’ve come to the conclusion that almost everyone has the physical ability to shoot master level scores.  Anyone that is not progressing continuously towards that level has either doesn’t really care about improving, has given up, has fundamental technical errors in their shooting, can’t see, or has not mentally accepted that they are capable of that level of performance.
 
There is not much that can be done about the first two, if they have given up or don’t really care, they are probably not reading this anyway.   Fundamental errors and vision can be corrected if you know what you need to see and just get them fixed through training and equipment.  The last one though, that’s a tough one.  In order to shoot better scores, you HAVE to believe that you can shoot better scores.  And the best way I’ve seen to get started doing that is to really watch other people shooting better scores. (I think this is the biggest secret concerning how quickly shooters on the military teams improve and move up. They see good shooting all the time and it is expected as "normal". Think about it.)

Justin Georgio, one of Brian's team-mates from before Brian retired from the USMC gave me similar advice.  He said I should look at the good targets that they post inside the USMC trailer.  Just like Cecil said, they USMC team uses those good targets to show that great targets are "normal" and achievable. 

For us since we have to wait for big matches to see the masters shoot, Georgio said to surround yourself with YOUR OWN best targets.  THOSE are what YOU do!  Those are targets you shoot.  Those targets will be YOUR "normal".  WHY NOT? You shot them before!

Everything Cecil said was great stuff!

Out of the 3 Master + shooters that posted on this thread, do all of you keep a match journal and a written shot process?

Rob Kovach wrote:Out of the 3 Master + shooters that posted on this thread, do all of you keep a match journal and a written shot process?

Yes, of course. I have CRS.

What is "CRS"?

Rob:  Thanks for the comments.  

(1) I can't begin to count the variations for dryfiring.  However for a start, get a good DA revolver and dryfire double action (one handed, bullsye stype of course) on a spot on the wall.  That will quickly build up muscles and control as we try to keep that front sight centered in the rear throughout the trigger press. And the point here is to focus on the front sight all the way through the shot.  If you lose focus on the sight or it leaves the notch, put it down and start over.  Only train good shots.  You can't snap a DA trigger too fast or we will lost the sight picture.  Press it too slow and I'll guarantee you'll be tired and wobbling all over the place in 5 minutes. 

(2)Of course I have a journal, actually on volume 7 now.  One of the early one's even has John Bicker's name from the first time we met and I shot beside him at Bristol.  We were about the only shooters using open sights.  (Which by the way is a very good way to learn to shoot well, IF you can actually see the front sight!)  Now I don't keep infinite details on what I ate, etc. but scores, impressions, what went right or didn't.  Lots of names and contacts for various things.  
(3)Shot process, not so much.  Sometimes people mix up getting ready to shoot with the actual shot. Just remember that we need to take care of everything from position, to loading, to grip, etc. before the gun ever leaves the bench for an actual shot.  Do not waste shot time trying to get something fixed or right. Just abort that shot, keep the 10 points and start over when you're really ready.  Shot process is now "Target, Dot, Trigger, Bang or Abort". 

Cecil

The reason I ask about the journal was as I was asking Georgio about my performance gap in matches, he said that the written journal is key for the newer shooter to compartmentalize anxiety.  The repetitive routine is what makes the match "routine" and cuts down on the stress level.

This has been my biggest obstacle in this sport!  When I'm coaching others or practicing, I rip 1 ragged hole in the x ring.  When it's a match or a drill string, I don't FEEL stressed, I just loose points and don't shoot as well.  I will add the journal to my equipment.

Rob, I undersand your obstacle.  

I once had a massive project and at the first meeting I asked everyone to get a piece of paper and write out their expectations good or bad, about the project on the paper.  Everyone got to work like the good people they are.  There were short expectations, long expectations, bullet lists and complete plans for greatness and failure.  It was a massive collection of individual effort like you've never seen before.  And remember there are some high ranking people in this room, above my pay scale. 

After everyone was finished.  I walked around the table, and picked up each list, with a word or two to each person.  Went back to the front of the room and proceeded to put all the papers in a wastebasket without any additional comment.  You should have seen the looks I got at that moment.

Then I stood in front of the room and said, "now we can leave all your "expectations" behind and remove that limit from our success."  That was the first step in recognizing that expectations, no matter how good, create a limit.  That is first step to true performance.

So, my comment to the issue of match performance, is start with leaving your expectations behind.  Learn how to perform rather than relying on what you have already done.  Now this is not a magic potion or immediate fix.  Quit trying to dress up the shot and trying to shoot something better than what you can at a match.   Each match is different due to weather, range conditions, how you feel, etc.  Remember the match does not go to the best shooter, it goes to the best competitor.  Some of us become better "practicers" than "competitors" because its another step we have not taken on the path to getting better performance at the actual match.  

And I thought about moving this to the Fundamentals area.  But since there a 4 times as many posts under Equipment than there, it might be better to leave it here     

Cecil

Boy oh boy!!! LOL!!  I knew this would happen. Everyone thinks that this is a personal affront to their hard work and dedication. Nothing could be further to the truth. If your insulted don't get all worked up over it. The fact that at over 40 you made it actually proves my case, whether you like it or not. Of course, you'll disagree and of course you think that, "WHHHHHEEEEEEE!!!  having fun and making high master, BOY was that easy, is what I'm saying. ONCE AGAIN, I'm not saying that. Of course, you have to train hard, train often and shoot a ton of matches. You think that all eternal experts, marksman...etc are somewhat slackers that just shoot for fun unless you use YOUR training principles. That's funny as well. FACT IS any monthly match, theres 2 HMs (always the same 2 guys or girls, I better say girls or I'll get a nasty note on that) and a bunch of everyone else. So I guess, everyone else are either beginning shooters or just people having fun. By the way, I never heard anyone say a bullseye match was fun. Its hard work, rewarding, self satisfying,  soul searching whatever but fun? Going to the movies and having sex with your partner is fun. But that's me. I've known LIFETIME MARKSMAN that practiced twice a week and still never improved. Must have been fun. I've known HM shooters that were so crazed to make 2650 that they drove everyone crazy. I guess he wasn't motivated. I know what you're saying, but you have to realize, everyone has a ceiling that no matter how hard they try they improve 1 point at a time. Some ceilings are higher than others. That's why some guys play pro football and others never made to college ball. By the way, my email address is tenx9@netzero.net. Drop me a note, I'll give you my phone number and we can fight over this anytime you have the time.

Hey tenx9,
This isn't your thread.  This thread ISN'T about why people can't get to the next level. 

This thread is about occasionally demonstrating much higher ability--sometimes, but not others--and why that happens and how to fix THAT problem.

So far this thread has some of the most unique and nuanced perspectives ever written about the mental aspect of this sport.  Please don't clutter it up with your concept.  Please start a new thread with your idea and we will comment on it there.

-Rob