Garmin Xero

My Christmas present arrived late this afternoon. Xero C1. After years of either heaving a full size tripod and a bag with chrono shields, wires and controller to the outdoor range, or borrowing a huge, power hungry and fragile lab radar at the indoor range this thing is a revelation. Unless you're into skinny jeans (and given the age profile of bullseye shooters I think this is unlikely ) it easily fits into your pocket, usb-c charging so it only takes a few minutes to charge, drops the data onto your phone automatically.

I trialed it on a 16 lane indoor range with only one or two empty lanes and one of them had someone shooting full auto. Just stood it on the top of the gun box and turned it on. 40 rounds of 22 (Aguila and SK). Picked up every one. No extraneous shots (which the lab radar could never do). Data on phone. Get home - export it to computer as CSV with 2 taps. So far I"m loving it.

This is the data for the SK

#	Speed (FPS)	Δ AVG (FPS)	KE (FT-LBS)	Power Factor (kgr⋅ft/s)	Time	Clean Bore	Cold Bore	Shot Notes
1	858.6	-6.5	65.5	34.3	15:40:49
2	861	-4.2	65.8	34.4	15:41:17
3	890.3	25.2	70.4	35.6	15:41:42
4	902.8	37.7	72.4	36.1	15:42:17
5	868.3	3.2	67	34.7	15:42:42
6	869.1	3.9	67.1	34.8	15:44:11
7	856.7	-8.4	65.2	34.3	15:44:31
8	868.2	3	66.9	34.7	15:45:05
9	855.3	-9.8	65	34.2	15:45:39
10	828.7	-36.5	61	33.1	15:46:18
11	912.5	47.4	73.9	36.5	15:48:36
12	862.6	-2.5	66.1	34.5	15:49:05
13	840	-25.2	62.7	33.6	15:49:33
14	879.5	14.4	68.7	35.2	15:50:14
15	866	0.9	66.6	34.6	15:50:51
16	916.7	51.6	74.6	36.7	15:52:17
17	854.2	-11	64.8	34.2	15:52:59
18	841.4	-23.8	62.9	33.7	15:53:39
19	837.8	-27.3	62.3	33.5	15:54:19
20	832.9	-32.3	61.6	33.3	15:54:51
-
AVERAGE	865.1
STD DEV	24.4
SPREAD	88
Session Note
All shots included in the calculations

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I love mine too. Have used it for every thing from air rifle, compound bow, pistols and highpower rifles.

Well, now I need one of these...

lyoke wrote:Well, now I need one of these...

 They have killed the Labradar.

lyoke wrote:Well, now I need one of these...

I just put myself on the waiting list for one.......

Competition is always a good thing

 They have killed the Labradar.

Well to resuscitate it will take a Labradar retriever  

JHHolliday wrote:

 They have killed the Labradar.

Well to resuscitate it will take a Labradar retriever  

And here we have it folks. The late winning entry in the annual "Worlds Worst Pun" award.

As a prize you are generously permitted to go outside and beat yourself up.

One of these was my Christmas present as well. Had it out for 2 hours at 0F, shooting 6mm PPC, .308, and .223. Picked up every shot. Battery only went down a little (way better battery life than everything I've heard about Lab Radar). Takes up no room on the shooting bench, and just works. I had a Magneto Speed and I don't think I'll ever use it again. These really change everything. For example, my 6mm PPC reloads had 300 FPS?!? in total velocity distro, and still shot some great 5 round groups. Meanwhile 168 FGMM had only a 40 FPS distro, across 20 rounds, with a SD of 12. Information I just wasn't going to otherwise have in a normal shooting session.

Jeff Porter wrote:

lyoke wrote:Well, now I need one of these...

 They have killed the Labradar.

And virtually every chrono on the market.

Multiracer wrote:

Jeff Porter wrote:

lyoke wrote:Well, now I need one of these...

 They have killed the Labradar.

And virtually every chrono on the market.

Yeah - I mean we still have to wait and see how it fares in the real world over a period of time and there's the possibility of it not being consistently accurate - but as soon as I used it I got that 'iPhone' feeling where the whole industry got restarted by one new paradigm.

Jeff Porter wrote:

lyoke wrote:Well, now I need one of these...

 They have killed the Labradar.

I have to disagree with you a bit on your comment.  Garmin didn't kill Labradar, they killed themselves.  I have 4 different chronographs now the latest one being the Garmin Xero.  The Garmin is by far the best of the bunch based on several factors including reliability, portability and ease of use.  The Garmin has not lost or missed one single shot including .22 RF which is amazing for its size.  I have always had a problem with my similarly priced Labradar which is lucky to record half my .22RF shots.  In fact the last time I tried the Labradar on a new lot of .22RF ammo it recorded one shot out of 50.  I called Labradar to see if they could look at my unit to check its operation and all I got was stonewalled.  Try this and try that first and get back to us.  Oh, you are on an indoor range?  Well that can have a negative influence on how our Labradar works, so go to an outdoor range and on and on.  Labradar didn't know that besides their chrono I was also  using my new Garmin Xero which recorded all the shots the Labradar missed.

Finally after multiple conversations with Labradar and trying their "suggestions" I flat gave up.  All I was asking them for was authorization to send my Labradar back to them for a checkup and I offered to pay for this service, just to see if something was wrong with mine.  No dice from Labradar.  They never offered to let me send it to them for a diagnostic check even at my expense.  Labradar and their customer service simply stinks in polite words.  Rarely have I been taken to the cleaners as bad as this.  In fairness the Labradar will work with bigger caliber projectiles or even .223 rounds, but .22RF is a no-go, but even this isn't always true especially on a busy range.  I can't even give my Labradar away to someone now because the Garmin works so much better.  Used Labradars are up for sale on a host of different web-sites for super cheap and they aren't selling.

So in my mind Garmin didn't kill Labradar, Labradar killed themselves with a poorly built, overpriced product and non-existent customer service.  Labradar had all the ear markings of a high qaulity desirable product, but they never really delivered on this.  One day perhaps I will have a raffle to shoot my Labradar at long range just for fun and then send it back to Labradar.

Rick H.

Curious, have you compared simultaneous readings between the two devices? I'd be careful about drawing the conclusion that a "missed" shot is an error, it could be a setup/proximity issue or whatever. Not that ease of use isn't important! But I'd love to hear how well calibrated the Xero results are.

I came across this while looking for info on the Garmin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSuewpyWNoI&t=8s

Foundryratjim wrote:I came across this while looking for info on the Garmin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSuewpyWNoI&t=8s

Watching that video made me sad for Rick H. and the problems he has had with his Labradar.  Should start calling it the “Goldenretrieveradar”!

-TT- wrote:Curious, have you compared simultaneous readings between the two devices? I'd be careful about drawing the conclusion that a "missed" shot is an error, it could be a setup/proximity issue or whatever. Not that ease of use isn't important! But I'd love to hear how well calibrated the Xero results are.

In all the testing I went thru between my Garmin, Magnetospeed and Labradar, when all 3 were working together, I don't think the results varied more than 4 FPS on velocity.  At least I don't recall ever seeing a 5 FPS difference between them.  Of course this doesn't include rimfire velocities for the Labradar which has never given me much information back on rimfire ammunition.  This includes using the three chronos on an indoor range and outdoor range at the same time.

I have no issue with the Magnetospeed.  It is what it is and works reliably when connected properly but it still doesn't record every shot the way the Garmin does.  I find this an important factor for my testing as I usually don't like loading more than 10 rounds of ammunition for testing.  Waste not, want not.

When I bought my first chronograph it was the old sky-screen Chrony and those were a nightmare to use sometimes.  Then the Magnetospeed came out and it was a huge step up in reliability and ease of use.  No longer did one have to monkey around with setting up a chronograph in front of the shooting bench and taking range time away from other shooters, but more important the Magnetospeed gave reliable and repeatable information back, but it has drawbacks.  Then the Labradar hit the market and I jumped on one when I could because many like myself thought this was THE answer.  No attachment to the firearm to worry about, no change in point of impact to consider just set it up and record your information.  Well not quite that easy I am afraid.  There was a learning process with the Labradar and environmental factors to consider as well.  After a few times at the range with the Labradar I became familiar with its quirks and as long as I was testing centerfire ammo it worked okay, but just okay.  I would say 80% okay with C.F. ammunition.  Other shooters would ask me about my Labradar and I had to be honest with them about how it really worked.  Thankfully no one I talked to ran out and spent 500 dollars on one the way I did.

When I first heard about Garmin coming out with another radar based chronograph I thought oh-oh, here we go again.  But I was familiar with Garmin products especially their GPS units and knew them to be trustworthy.  My second thought was Garmin certainly wouldn't hang their name on something that didn't work, so I took the plunge and ordered one when there was only a two week backorder from the factory on them.  Even though I knew what I was getting I was still surprised at the size of the Xero and I could see another $600 dollars flying out the window, but I need not worry.  My Garmin Xero has worked great, almost too great because now I am spoiled by it.  Once the backlog on Xero's calms down I am going to order a second one just in case something happens to my first one.  Yes, they really are THAT GOOD...

My Garmin Xero has even shocked my wife of almost 50 years.  She claims I never buy anything that I find fault free and I have to admit she is right.  I find things wrong with almost everything I buy, but the Xero didn't fit the mold in that regard.  It is almost perfect except I wish it had a replaceable internal battery.  I would love to know I could replace the battery when the time comes, but that time may not ever come.  Who knows if it ever will.  So if this helps anyone out in making an expensive purchase than all is well.  Interestingly Garmin also makes a clays sports chronograph that yields a ton of information for the user, but I rarely shoot a shotgun anymore, but I would still like to know how that unit is working out for people.

Rick H.

I've found that the Labradar is very sensitive to proper alignment, muzzle location (forward of the unit), and distance (sampling) interval. For pistol, I set it up so that the interval is every 8 yards, hopefully yielding 4 or 5 good data points. The Labradar shows you the velocity at each sample distance and then interpolates back (via curve fitting) to give you a MV. The Garmin works the same way (MV via interpolation). I don't do enough testing to switch, unless the Garmin has some unique advantage. My Labradar has been fine with .22LR SV ammo.

You are indeed fortunate tovaert if your Labradar works well with .22 rimfire ammunition.  Mine never has and when it did it was very sporadic in returns.  I guess my main point isn't so much how it works with this and that ammunition, but more with the complete lack of customer service from Labradar.  When a customer who purchased one of their units can't convince them to examine that unit for proper operation, even agreeing to pay for all expenses, than something is wrong with that company.  And yes, for me the Garmin has a unique advantage in that it is just simple to transport, simple to setup and simple to operate without being so directionally and acoustically dependent.

Rick H.

I just got mine delivered today. The indoor range I practice at is only 50 feet. The instruction manual states the target must be 20 yards or meters. Has anyone used one at 50 feet?  Thanks.

Greetings,

A fellow on another forum has been clocking BB gun velocities in his 30 foot hallway.

No way to ensure the values are accurate; but, the Xero does pick them up.

Why not go to the range and try it?

Cheers,

Dave

Does the Garmin display downrange velocity values? If so, how many? One thing I like about the Labradar is that I can see the number of datapoints, downrange, that were used to estimate the MV.

Just playing with mine - I don't see a way to get that data. Of course, being an engineer, I haven't read the manual :-)

No - Garmin back calculates MV from the down range data points but does not report any other than MV.

fc60 wrote:Greetings,

A fellow on another forum has been clocking BB gun velocities in his 30 foot hallway.

No way to ensure the values are accurate; but, the Xero does pick them up.

Why not go to the range and try it?

Cheers,

Dave

I finally got a chance to get to the range. The Garmin never missed a shot!

I tested mine out at a 50ft indoor match and it didn't skip a beat only using in slow fire to see if it would work. I think the 20yds is only for high velocity projectiles IE. rifle bullets. The thing is pretty simple and kind of hard to beat. 


GW