Bullseye-L Forum
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Magazine accuracy?

+12
Wes Lorenz
chiz1180
RoyDean
Ed Hall
Al
bruce martindale
jglenn21
james r chapman
Merick
jjfitch
NukeMMC
jwax
16 posters

Go down

Magazine accuracy? Empty Magazine accuracy?

Post by jwax Mon Jan 15, 2024 11:08 am

Saw a Facebook post about magazines affecting accuracy of a semiauto pistol, and would like to hear the experts (HM's specifically) discuss.
Does a magazine have an effect on pistol accuracy, and if so, how? Do you have "most accurate" magazines and "less accurate" magazines?
jwax
jwax

Posts : 587
Join date : 2011-06-10
Location : Western ny

Back to top Go down

Magazine accuracy? Empty Re: Magazine accuracy?

Post by NukeMMC Mon Jan 15, 2024 11:22 am

There certainly was an effect on the M14. Military armorers would bench-test rifles with magazines and look for 2 or 3 that would group together. They didn't accuracy check magazines for pistols, but would check functionality.
NukeMMC
NukeMMC

Posts : 561
Join date : 2018-10-12

Back to top Go down

Magazine accuracy? Empty Well!!

Post by jjfitch Mon Jan 15, 2024 11:39 am

jwax wrote:Saw a Facebook post about magazines affecting accuracy of a semiauto pistol, and would like to hear the experts (HM's specifically) discuss.
Does a magazine have an effect on pistol accuracy, and if so, how? Do you have "most accurate" magazines and "less accurate" magazines?

I can see in some cases where the top bullet could press up on the bottom of the slide creating upward pressure tightening the slide. 
Otherwise, I don't see how a magazine can affect accuracy! Smile


Last edited by jjfitch on Mon Jan 15, 2024 1:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
jjfitch
jjfitch

Posts : 142
Join date : 2012-08-31
Age : 77
Location : The Beautiful Pacific Northwest

billybobluvshk likes this post

Back to top Go down

Magazine accuracy? Empty Re: Magazine accuracy?

Post by Merick Mon Jan 15, 2024 12:12 pm

I can't tell you why or how much but it does have an effect. It must be something with consistent tension but I don't know a good way to test that other than to shoot some groups.

Anyhow 100% function is the most important box to check, but after that if you tested some why would you not compete with the one or two that grouped the best?


Last edited by Merick on Tue Jan 16, 2024 9:08 am; edited 1 time in total

Merick

Posts : 452
Join date : 2015-08-13
Location : Kansas

Back to top Go down

Magazine accuracy? Empty Re: Magazine accuracy?

Post by james r chapman Mon Jan 15, 2024 5:05 pm

If Jon Shue says he uses one tuned magazine, it’s worth testing them.
james r chapman
james r chapman
Admin

Posts : 6359
Join date : 2012-01-31
Age : 75
Location : HELL, Michigan

Jwhelan939 likes this post

Back to top Go down

Magazine accuracy? Empty Re: Magazine accuracy?

Post by jglenn21 Mon Jan 15, 2024 5:27 pm

Based on RR testing, I've  seen some mags that just flat shoot better than the next one in a particular pistol. I've attributed this to a mag feeding differently than another probably slightly different lockup as a result. You see the same thing with the 1st round loaded verses cycled rounds.
jglenn21
jglenn21

Posts : 2618
Join date : 2015-04-07
Age : 76
Location : monroe , ga

kc.crawford.7 and Sa-tevp like this post

Back to top Go down

Magazine accuracy? Empty Re: Magazine accuracy?

Post by bruce martindale Mon Jan 15, 2024 6:44 pm

Ive wondered about fitted 45 mags that don’t drop free but fit tightly.  My Leutenegger has two of them

bruce martindale

Posts : 1734
Join date : 2011-07-29
Location : Upstate NY

https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t20747-feeling-center-a-10-bullsey

Back to top Go down

Magazine accuracy? Empty magazines & accuracy

Post by Al Tue Jan 16, 2024 12:38 am

In a word, yes. 
A few years back I ransomed 15 different magazines. 3 were far better in repeated blind tests. 2 were way below acceptable. All were used randomly and were all dependable otherwise. I engraved the best ones as SF mags. the rest of them were all very close in average group size. 
I used my standard long line load of 4.5 BE, Zero 185 JHP and TZZ once fired brass.
Al

Al

Posts : 650
Join date : 2011-06-10
Age : 69
Location : Bismarck, ND

jwax and Sa-tevp like this post

Back to top Go down

Magazine accuracy? Empty Re: Magazine accuracy?

Post by Ed Hall Tue Jan 16, 2024 7:32 am

Yes.  The reasons for different printing at the target are different tensions from stripping the round as it's taken into the chamber.  Everything from spring tension to round tipping, through lip dragging will affect how the slide closes.  Most shooters will never notice, but higher levels take everything into account.  State Championships are often won/lost by a point or an X.

Ed Hall

Posts : 1084
Join date : 2012-09-10
Location : Adirondack Mountains

http://www.starreloaders.com/edhall/

jwax, BE Mike, Sa-tevp and Hawkja like this post

Back to top Go down

Magazine accuracy? Empty Re: Magazine accuracy?

Post by jwax Wed Jan 17, 2024 7:12 am

Would it be safe to say that any semi auto (9mm, .38SPL, etc.) would have the same effect, or is the "magazine effect" only observable in .45?
jwax
jwax

Posts : 587
Join date : 2011-06-10
Location : Western ny

tovaert likes this post

Back to top Go down

Magazine accuracy? Empty Re: Magazine accuracy?

Post by RoyDean Wed Jan 17, 2024 7:21 am

I have an Accuracy-X Pro rebuilt by Jon Shue and, in addition to the normal total rebuild, he used a surface grinder to relieve the magazines where the trigger stirrup rides.

Interesting.

RoyDean

Posts : 980
Join date : 2021-03-31
Age : 68
Location : Oregon

jwax likes this post

Back to top Go down

Magazine accuracy? Empty Re: Magazine accuracy?

Post by chiz1180 Wed Jan 17, 2024 7:36 am

RoyDean wrote:I have an Accuracy-X Pro rebuilt by Jon Shue and, in addition to the normal total rebuild, he used a surface grinder to relieve the magazines where the trigger stirrup rides.

Interesting.
Keefer did that too I believe.
chiz1180
chiz1180

Posts : 1487
Join date : 2019-05-29
Location : Ohio

Sa-tevp likes this post

Back to top Go down

Magazine accuracy? Empty Re: Magazine accuracy?

Post by bruce martindale Wed Jan 17, 2024 7:43 am

That’s a reason that I only load 5 in any magazine. You could not prove it by my scores .

 In my case “ There’s no reason for it, it’s just our policy”

bruce martindale

Posts : 1734
Join date : 2011-07-29
Location : Upstate NY

https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t20747-feeling-center-a-10-bullsey

joeangi and Single_handed like this post

Back to top Go down

Magazine accuracy? Empty Re: Magazine accuracy?

Post by Wes Lorenz Wed Jan 17, 2024 9:29 am

From September 10, 2019: 
https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t13139-accuracy-testing-article-in-shooting-sports-magazine#113919


I discovered mags can make a difference as shown in the pictures. Almost all of the wide shots came from the same magazine over and over. More testing to be done.
Magazine accuracy? Ed_bro11
Magazine accuracy? Tripp_10
Magazine accuracy? Wilson10
Wes Lorenz
Wes Lorenz

Posts : 443
Join date : 2011-06-27
Location : Washington

fc60, chiz1180 and Dan Webb like this post

Back to top Go down

Magazine accuracy? Empty Re: Magazine accuracy?

Post by tovaert Thu Jan 18, 2024 8:49 am

Which magazines were used in the third photo?

tovaert

Posts : 448
Join date : 2018-11-28

Back to top Go down

Magazine accuracy? Empty Re: Magazine accuracy?

Post by Wes Lorenz Thu Jan 18, 2024 9:12 am

Wilson’s
Wes Lorenz
Wes Lorenz

Posts : 443
Join date : 2011-06-27
Location : Washington

chiz1180 likes this post

Back to top Go down

Magazine accuracy? Empty Re: Magazine accuracy?

Post by Jack H Thu Jan 18, 2024 11:19 am

My HS magazines were selected and adjusted for me in the 70s by coach Miller.  Coach Miller in turn had learned most of what he knew from Joe Benner.  So there's that.

Another thing I have seen was Roddy testing a 45 in the Ransom.  I was scoping each shot falling into a nice tight group.  Then one was out of group a little.  Roddy without scoping, immediately said that shot was out of group.  I asked how do you know that?  Roddy said the ejected case hit a different spot on the block wall adjacent the Ransom. 

Little things make a difference...
Jack H
Jack H

Posts : 2693
Join date : 2011-06-10
Age : 75
Location : Oregon

tovaert, Gustavo1957 and shanneba like this post

Back to top Go down

Magazine accuracy? Empty Re: Magazine accuracy?

Post by Sa-tevp Thu Jan 18, 2024 5:13 pm

A friend and I were testing with a Ransom Rest years ago and out of the various magazines on hand Metalform 7 round round-follower magazines gave the best results for my bitsa* SA Range Officer. Not by much but it was noticeable, so I now have SF magazines. 

*the RO evolved over time bit by bit into a full Bullseye pistol.
Sa-tevp
Sa-tevp

Posts : 961
Join date : 2013-07-20
Location : Georgia

Back to top Go down

Magazine accuracy? Empty Re: Magazine accuracy?

Post by bruce martindale Fri Jan 19, 2024 10:17 am

Math majors use the Statistically Significant with all kinds of qualifying coefficients to determine that one result is or is not typical. I have Bench Rest Rifle friends who need 10 groups before they select a setup. God help me l don’t have that patience but their message was one point doesn’t make a line. Here, you make your best effort and run with it and see if the improvement is measurable over time.

bruce martindale

Posts : 1734
Join date : 2011-07-29
Location : Upstate NY

https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t20747-feeling-center-a-10-bullsey

Foundryratjim likes this post

Back to top Go down

Magazine accuracy? Empty Re: Magazine accuracy?

Post by tovaert Fri Jan 19, 2024 11:18 am

Assuming you find a single "best" magazine, is there a preferred method for (loading in) slow fire? I'm honestly not sure, most likely doing it wrong. Is the preferred (Bruce's) method to insert a magazine with 5 rounds, rack slide, fire 5 shots, table gun, reload the magazine, and repeat?

tovaert

Posts : 448
Join date : 2018-11-28

Back to top Go down

Magazine accuracy? Empty Re: Magazine accuracy?

Post by NukeMMC Fri Jan 19, 2024 4:38 pm

I have 2 mags that I use. I load 5 in each. Shoot 4 from the first then reload and shoot the last 6. Slide only stays back on last.
NukeMMC
NukeMMC

Posts : 561
Join date : 2018-10-12

Al likes this post

Back to top Go down

Magazine accuracy? Empty Re: Magazine accuracy?

Post by Al Fri Jan 19, 2024 8:15 pm

tovaert wrote:Assuming you find a single "best" magazine, is there a preferred method for (loading in) slow fire? I'm honestly not sure, most likely doing it wrong. Is the preferred (Bruce's) method to insert a magazine with 5 rounds, rack slide, fire 5 shots, table gun, reload the magazine, and repeat?

Not that it improves my current level of shooting, but I use the same process as when I Ransom test.
Load 5 shoot 4 and then reload with the next 5.

Al

Posts : 650
Join date : 2011-06-10
Age : 69
Location : Bismarck, ND

Caster3845 likes this post

Back to top Go down

Magazine accuracy? Empty Re: Magazine accuracy?

Post by jwax Fri Jan 26, 2024 9:01 am

If I'm reading this right, the last round, being the one that locks back the slide, will have a different POI then the previous 4 rounds? What could account for that? The bullet has long left the barrel before the slide even begins moving, either locking back or not.

Very different conversation from magazine accuracy, but interesting nonetheless!
jwax
jwax

Posts : 587
Join date : 2011-06-10
Location : Western ny

Back to top Go down

Magazine accuracy? Empty Re: Magazine accuracy?

Post by NukeMMC Fri Jan 26, 2024 9:13 am

Not always. For some it's just a matter of keeping the same "feel" for 9 of the shots, with the last shot being the only different one.
Further Olympians shooting rapid, it's a difference.
NukeMMC
NukeMMC

Posts : 561
Join date : 2018-10-12

Sa-tevp likes this post

Back to top Go down

Magazine accuracy? Empty Re: Magazine accuracy?

Post by RodJ Fri Jan 26, 2024 7:59 pm

One explanation I read is that my Marvel without last shot hold open was designed that way to ensure consistency in feeling among all shots, including the last one.


RodJ

Posts : 905
Join date : 2021-06-26
Location : TX

Back to top Go down

Magazine accuracy? Empty Re: Magazine accuracy?

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum