Another from the archives - Seeking Zin

From long ago.   Don't blame me.




I'd like to have a talk again about converting your conscious shooting efforts into subconscious.


As you train and drill in the conscious on trigger, hold, or eye discipline, and try to eliminate them from conscious thought, what is your last point of conscious attention that can still bring a good shot together?


What is the one last conscious thought you can keep that does actually help channel the subconscious shot?
Jack H


Jack,


Excellent question.....been awhile since someone asked a shooting question.

If you are having a conscious thought in the last second before you shoot, then your subconscious mind is not yet been "freed" to take over and act. You need 3 seconds of quiet mind before the subconscious is asked to perform what the conscious has asked of it. Your last conscious thought should be one of the two most important fundamentals.....sight alignment or trigger control. Which ever is the least automatic for you should get your conscious mind's last attention and then go quiet for the subconscious to take over. Not that I'm so smart, I learned the 3 second "rule" from Jan Brundin.
Ron S


I needed to shoot many hundred perfect shots before I noticed that I was doing it without thinking about it. This happened to me in 1970 while I was shooting on my High School Rifle Team. Until a few years ago it was a mystery to me just how and why this happened. It is not something easily understood by means of logic. Perhaps one of those wise old sayings will help: (crudely paraphrased)
A man could chase a cat around for hours without catching it but sit quietly and the cat will jump up into your lap.
~Trying~ to shoot with subconscious control will bring only frustration and failure.


I try to have nothing in my mind when shooting. The absence of words in my thoughts seem to be especially important to me. Think in pictures instead of words. Visualize the sights in the perfect position when the pistol fires. The trigger must be ignored as long as the sights are not disturbed by the trigger. This is often described as a race to get the sights right before the weapon fires.


It works the other way too; The sights must be ignored as long as the trigger pull is smooth and straight (notice I did not say it should be a slow pull). I seem to recall that Zins concentrates on the trigger. Depends on which one needs your total concentration.


You are not actually ignoring either of the fundamentals, the subconscious takes over the part you are not concentrating on.


I play a few seconds of instrumental music in my head to help get rid of the voices when I insist on nagging myself. I do not try to rid myself of the extraneous thoughts I simply distract myself with something unrelated to shooting. Preparation helps too. I sit and think about any and
everything that might drift into my mind and I think about it however long it takes to solve the problem or become comfortable with the fact that I cannot do anything about it. This really helps cut down on the random thoughts that will distract me while I am attempting to concentrate on the task at hand.


Zen, on the other hand, is dangerous for competitors. Zen does this by not caring about the outcome (score) but only about the act of shooting. Many top shooters have "burned out" because they no longer care about the competition between shooters. Without Zen I probably would have never understood what was happening but now I do not care much about matches.
I will get back to you when I figure out how to keep the cake and eat it too!


This is not the secret shortcut for the apprentice to suddenly begin shooting High Master scores. You MUST get all the fundamentals and the details correct first. Remember that a flinch is also subconscious!
Bob Fleming


Hi Jack,


As the New Year approaches I've been changing my thoughts on training the subconscious. Actually, this has been happening for a little while, but I haven't put much of this new concept to words yet. My previous belief centered around the idea of creating a set of steps to practice until they are ingrained and can be left to the subconscious to perform as we taught.


My current belief is that this procedure is actually limiting the subconscious in its capability. It's like your boss telling you what he wants done and then telling you how he wants each step performed. A result can be achieved, but there can be no advancement over what the boss knows. In a way, the conscious developing a routine and then forcing it onto the subconscious is providing a way for the conscious to still be in control. It is also telling the subconscious not to stray from the provided course.


So my thoughts now go to the idea of giving the subconscious more latitude and tasking it with finding the way. It order for this to work the conscious needs to be able to let go of the process and become the observer we've addressed before. The conscious also has to provide the goal information through visualization so that the subconscious knows where you want to go. The conscious then provides feedback of how the experimentation of the subconscious is proceeding by being the observer in the process. The subconscious performs all the activities to prove or disprove what it tries. The conscious refrains from judgment and lets the subconscious judge the value of the intricate actions.


This new concept does not disagree with earlier thoughts. It actually explains why we have some of those moments when we get mixed up, everything happens on its own and we find a pleasant surprise when the target faces for scoring. It also ties in to the fact that we can improve by shooting without actually following a training schedule. Perhaps it even explains those "naturals" a bit more. You might remember my contention that "naturals" aren't alien, and the way can be learned by those that aren't "naturals." I've always put forth that it is in the attitude that these individuals excel. Perhaps a big part of that confidence they display is in the ability to turn the important stuff over to the subconscious.


So where am I going with all this? I'm developing the idea that instead of training the subconscious to perform my consciously developed routines, I should simply tell my subconscious what I want and let it determine the way. In order to see this through, I must let the subconscious find out what happens when the trigger is activated in all the little ways it can be and take that all the way to letting my subconscious determine all the aspects through experimentation. I must become the true conscious observer and let the subconscious decide the training.


Perhaps, more to follow...


Take Care,
Ed Hall


I hear you Ed and think you are right on. And yes. Do follow up.
The biggest obstacle then is to get into a mental state free of dirty laundry. If you know what I mean.

LtC Miller always said "trigger control, sight alignment, and an empty mind". One would think the empty mind part is easy, but it is the harder of the three. (Although an empty mind might be easy for some people:)


Learn the basics. Learn the goal. Learn the simplest way to present the goal to the subconscious sans detail. The subconscious is probably kind of mixed up if you give it too much detail. I think there is a simple single key for the subconscious to work off of. Give it that key, and turn it loose. Of course you have to be prepared first to a certain level before you can let it go.


Now at what level of shooting do you think these deep ideas really become critical?


Taking care
Jack H


Jack
In slow fire I just observe the dot.
In rapid I just say to myself , "smooth on the trigger".
In timed I try to cherry pick and that doesn't work!:-(
Dave


The biggest obstacle then is to get into a mental state free of dirty laundry.


This is where I like what Bob Fleming wrote:


"Preparation helps too. I sit and think about any and everything that might drift into my mind and I think about it however long it takes to solve the problem or become comfortable with the fact that I cannot do anything about it. This really helps cut down on the random thoughts that will distract me while I am attempting to concentrate on the task at hand."


Some excellent info! How often do we take the time to address all the issues? For most of us, we don't address them until we are forced to. The above routine described by Bob has to be an ongoing thing. It is best done as a scheduled sitting and all pending issues should be addressed. Those that can't be immediately resolved should be set aside with the firm determination to address them at the next scheduled time. An even more important part is to address them the next time and sincerely try to resolve them. If we keep putting off an issue, it will keep trying to get our attention at any instance it sees an opening. What better time than when we're trying to be calm and think of nothing? Once you've established a good routine, you will find it easy to set aside something that may crop up during that quiet time of shooting. Simply take a moment to address whatever it is and then resolve to fully address it at the next scheduled time. Then you should be able to get back to the task at hand.


Thanks for that description, Bob.


Take Care,
Ed Hall


**
Ed S, You had something great going on in what you wrote until, "forget the trigger". Never can you forget the trigger. Everything else sure but not the trigger. It is the only thing we are moving during a shot process. If you had a good day at the range understand that it things came together for you. When I have a day where I cannot seem to come out of the ten ring, it is like I am on auto pilot, not thinking about anything but just letting it happen. I am not forgetting about the trigger or the target, everything is just coming together naturally. Some people may never experience that, but when you do, you must understand that you are still focusing on the fundamentals it is just on a different level. A subconscious level. That is where we need to be in a string of fire, not consciously thinking about it but subconsciously. I only say this because it may confuse new shooters. They need to focus and focus well on the fundamentals when shooting. What you described is you reaching a new level for yourself. It is a great thing. You have experienced what they call the "zone" or the term in sports is "flow", where it seems you are not in control. I have one question. After the match were you mentally fatigued? Let me know and I'll explain why I ask.


BZ

Great info here , thank you for re-posting.

Can we pin this so it remains at the top of the forum thread?

This is just another take on the subject. Some may find it useful.

For those too young to remember him, Bill Pullum was the man who lifted American competitive rifle shooting from ‘also participated’ to an international powerhouse. He took over the U.S Army International squad in 1962; His shooters brought home two gold, a silver, and two bronze Olympic medals (of the total of nine awarded) in 1964.  The U.S. continued to dominate through the 1970s.

His philosophy of developing elite class marksmen applies far beyond International Three Position and aligns well with the theme of this thread.  His book “Position Rifle Shooting” (Pullum and Hanenkrat) is long out of print but is generally available in used condition for $10.00 or less.

https://www.amazon.com/Position-Rifle-Shooting-Bill-Pullum/dp/0883170523

The two paragraphs at the bottom of page 15 and the top of page 16 provide a synopsis of how, for accomplished shooters, physical and psychological activities combine into a single act. The entire book is worth reading regardless of your shooting discipline. The only point of emphasis in the entire book that doesn’t really apply to bullseye is the principle of bone support.

thanks for the link.