Maintaining Grip Pressure

In slow fire, my grip eases up over the course of the hold.  I'm finding my best shots go off in the first 3sec or so of hold.  By the time I get to 5 or 6 seconds, my grip is relaxed.  I flung two misses high right this weekend with 45.

In sustained fire, my grip relaxes as the string plays out.

My indicator for a good hold and recoil is feeling the impulse of the pistol being absorbed in the meat of my hand at the base of my thumb paired with a night up and left recoil.  Then there are the shots where I feel I'm scribbling on a chalkboard.  Many of those shots end up in the white to the right.

1 - I've already considered that this might be a strength issue, so skip over that please, working on that!
2 - Assuming it's not a strength issue, what is your process for setting and maintaining your grip?
3 - Between sustained fire shots, what things do you do to ensure the grip is firm?
4 - I've always figured tremors from gripping too hard happens at a percentage of your max grip strength.  Is this true?  If tremors start at 70% max grip strength, do that remain true as you grow your grip strength?  Or am I not thinking about this right?

Thanks!

hello are you a lefty? 
what i see on my team is new RH shooters tighten all their fingers anticipating a shot and pull to 7 to 8 o'clock left. this one is hard to determine but when all else is correct, ie sights on, proper trigger finger placement. we default to tightening all fingers. we also teach a slow fire hold up to 6 seconds. i don't know where  a less then 6 second hold came from, but it works for most of us good luck.

I am a righty. And I used to pull shots to 7/8 all the time. Seems to have at least fixed the ones like that which ends up in the white. 

The ones that go wide right have wild recoils where it feels I have no muscle in my wrist. Most of the time this happens, I would call them wide right shots.

I'm a right handed shooter and my nemesis is the high and right fliers. For me its my elbow and shoulder position. I tend to loosen up my elbow or get my shoulder out of wack. I've spent lots of time and trying different things with grip and eventually figure out that what was causing the high right fliers was my shoulder position first and then my elbow.

Soupy44 wrote:I am a righty. And I used to pull shots to 7/8 all the time. Seems to have at least fixed the ones like that which ends up in the white. 

The ones that go wide right have wild recoils where it feels I have no muscle in my wrist. Most of the time this happens, I would call them wide right shots.

Anatomically there are no muscles in the wrist.  Lock up is achieved by applying pressure with a middle finger straight back, TMBK.

AP

You might want to consider that you are gripping too hard to begin with.  The problem with overgripping is it retards your trigger finger.   You also may find yourself grabbing the gun.   In the words of Jim Henderson, hold the gun with the same pressure as a child’s hand crossing the street.   (not a naughty child either)  

One problem I have is pushing the gun with my thumb when I try and hold it too tight.  

It is likely that your sprayed shots are a result of poor triggering and overholding.

Schaumannk, could you elaborate on gripping too hard?  I have always associated gripping too hard with a fast shake/tremor.

My belief is that if you don't feel the grip coming from your forearm, you are not doing it right

Soupy44 wrote:Schaumannk, could you elaborate on gripping too hard?  I have always associated gripping too hard with a fast shake/tremor.

Sure.   Gripping too tightly retards your trigger finger.   You know those anatomical grips the Olympic shooter use?   Those are designed to isolate your fingers and to allow you to maintain an adequate grip on the gun without getting your thumb and other fingers involved in the shot process.   Some very strong people can maintain a very hard hold, and still get the free movement of the trigger finger.   I can’t.  Your middle finger wants to move with your trigger finger.   My advice is to  keep your middle finger out of your shot process unless you can train it not to move on the gun as you move your trigger finger.     I tend to use it to take the weight of trigger housing with slab grips, and curl it away from the grip with anatomical ones.   
As Tony Silva once demonstrated to me, you then learn how to curl the tip of your trigger finger independently back towards your  grip until the gun goes bang.  This can be done very quickly, with practice.  

However, your hold tends to go bad after a certain amount of time.   What the time is depends on the shooter.   Generally in my case if I haven’t released the shot in three seconds, I need to start again, because if I don’t I will move something (most likely my wrist) to recenter the dot in the target.

I use a Gripmaster Prohands grip exerciser.
Mine is 7 lb. (medium tension). They have several variations in grip shape and resistance. Each finger has a pad and spring so you can work your grip and trigger finger independently. 

This link is to one of the grips.
Amazon.com : Prohands Gripmaster Hand Exerciser, Finger Exerciser (Hand Grip Strengthener), Spring-Loaded, Finger-Piston System, Isolate and Exercise Each Finger, (7 lb Medium Tension, Red-Gripmaster) : Physical Therapy Hand Exercisers : Sports & Outdoors

Thank you for the elaboration!  I imagine I'm not the only person to feel there is too much recoil going on with 45.  

I have some printed anatomical grips for my 22 (M41), but the slabs have always felt better on my 1911s.

Coming from a smallbore background, we work on the 8 second rule for holds.  I feel my BE version is about 3-4 seconds.  

Jack H, could you please elaborate on what you focus on with your forearm?  Any specific muscles that seem to be key to you?

ermakevin wrote:hello are you a lefty? 
what i see on my team is new RH shooters tighten all their fingers anticipating a shot and pull to 7 to 8 o'clock left. this one is hard to determine but when all else is correct, ie sights on, proper trigger finger placement. we default to tightening all fingers. we also teach a slow fire hold up to 6 seconds. i don't know where  a less then 6 second hold came from, but it works for most of us good luck.

ok found the reference Pg98 of Expert Guide to Handgun Marksmanship by Jim Casada 
"the advanced shooter is limited in sustained concentration to a period of 3 to 6 Seconds"

schaumannk wrote:My advice is to  keep your middle finger out of your shot process unless you can train it not to move on the gun as you move your trigger finger.     I tend to use it to take the weight of trigger housing with slab grips, and curl it away from the grip with anatomical ones.   
As Tony Silva once demonstrated to me, you then learn how to curl the tip of your trigger finger independently back towards your  grip until the gun goes bang.  This can be done very quickly, with practice.  

Could you put a little more meat on "keeping middle finger out of the shot process"?  I have usually depended on the middle finger for the majority of grip pressure.  It sounds like you're suggesting using ring and pinkie fingers for grip, and middle finger just where the trigger guard rests?  Thats a twist if I'm hearing you right. Not saying it doesn't work - never thought to try it!

+1, I tried Schaumannk's suggestion of using the middle finger as more of a trigger guard rest, and gripping "from the bottom up" with pinkie and ring finger.  Just the opposite of what I had been doing.  With an ergo grip on an air pistol I'd say this worked really well.  Partnering this suggestion with one from another thread on thumb position, to point your thumb straight towards the target and stretch it towards the target, a nice tight pocket is produced at the thumb's base.  The particular beauty of the Schaumannk proposal is by not over-tensing the middle finger one's trigger finger works a lot more independently.  I notice less shake from over gripping, better control, and with an air-pistol at least, better grouping.