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chopper
mbmshooter
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JHHolliday
Ed Hall
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roll trigger in a 208S
by messenger Thu Aug 01, 2024 6:58 pm
I have all the paperwork available for adjusting a 208S. I have played with it to the point where it won't work. My trigger has a light take up then breaks. I like a short roll but have been unable to achieve a short roll. I went down the rabbit hole with my Pardini but I finally got what I wanted. Any help would be appreciated.
Bill
Bill
messenger- Posts : 1030
Join date : 2011-06-18
Location : North Carolina
Re: roll trigger in a 208S
by Ed Hall Fri Aug 02, 2024 6:19 am
The 208s has a two-stage setup and several adjustment points. I'll try to give a detailed description:
First, there is a definite arc of travel, that has to include the following for reliable operation. It needs a slight free travel before the sear moves, the complete travel of the sear engagement surface out from under the hammer hook and an amount of free travel after the hammer is released. The initial free travel is adjusted by the hex screw located in the front of the trigger assembly and should be adjusted while watching the trigger bar contact the sear arm. There needs to be just the slightest gap with the trigger relaxed. All weight of this section of the arc is provided by the first-stage adjustment screw located behind the trigger blade.
Next, when the trigger bar contacts the sear arm, the sear weight is added to the first-stage spring for the total first stage weight. Note, that the arc of travel is constant from sear engagement through hammer release. The length of this arc is not adjustable, but the point at which the second stage is picked up within the arc is adjustable via the second-stage adjustment assembly.
The second-stage assembly should be fully understood before making final adjustments. The assembly consists of an outer cylinder that allows for adjusting the point at which the second-stage is picked up within the arc. The inner section has a plunger that contacts the trigger and provides the second-stage weight. The inner adjustment should always allow the plunger to be free to travel fully into the outer portion. This travel is the longest portion of roll that can be achieved, but in order to get its full application, the outer adjustment needs to be set so the plunger is just shy of flush when the trigger is resting on the over-travel stop. The outer adjustment should always allow the trigger to reach its full travel to the trigger over-travel stop.
The stop is adjustable by pulling down the trigger guard and using the long allen wrench within the frame slot for the slide cross piece. The trigger over-travel stop should allow for the sear to be completely free of the hammer, so it doesn't drag at all after release.
Let me (us) know of specific questions and I (and others) will try to help some more.
First, there is a definite arc of travel, that has to include the following for reliable operation. It needs a slight free travel before the sear moves, the complete travel of the sear engagement surface out from under the hammer hook and an amount of free travel after the hammer is released. The initial free travel is adjusted by the hex screw located in the front of the trigger assembly and should be adjusted while watching the trigger bar contact the sear arm. There needs to be just the slightest gap with the trigger relaxed. All weight of this section of the arc is provided by the first-stage adjustment screw located behind the trigger blade.
Next, when the trigger bar contacts the sear arm, the sear weight is added to the first-stage spring for the total first stage weight. Note, that the arc of travel is constant from sear engagement through hammer release. The length of this arc is not adjustable, but the point at which the second stage is picked up within the arc is adjustable via the second-stage adjustment assembly.
The second-stage assembly should be fully understood before making final adjustments. The assembly consists of an outer cylinder that allows for adjusting the point at which the second-stage is picked up within the arc. The inner section has a plunger that contacts the trigger and provides the second-stage weight. The inner adjustment should always allow the plunger to be free to travel fully into the outer portion. This travel is the longest portion of roll that can be achieved, but in order to get its full application, the outer adjustment needs to be set so the plunger is just shy of flush when the trigger is resting on the over-travel stop. The outer adjustment should always allow the trigger to reach its full travel to the trigger over-travel stop.
The stop is adjustable by pulling down the trigger guard and using the long allen wrench within the frame slot for the slide cross piece. The trigger over-travel stop should allow for the sear to be completely free of the hammer, so it doesn't drag at all after release.
Let me (us) know of specific questions and I (and others) will try to help some more.
Ed Hall- Posts : 1084
Join date : 2012-09-10
Location : Adirondack Mountains -
mbmshooter and ermakevin like this post
Re: roll trigger in a 208S
by JHHolliday Fri Aug 02, 2024 6:28 am
Ed's info is very helpful. I used it to set a 2# short roll that is the best trigger (for me) of any I've tried.
https://starreloaders.com/edhall/hammerli208sca.html
https://starreloaders.com/edhall/hammerli208sca.html
JHHolliday- Posts : 252
Join date : 2022-12-15
Re: roll trigger in a 208S
by messenger Fri Aug 02, 2024 6:48 am
Ed Hall wrote:The 208s has a two-stage setup and several adjustment points. I'll try to give a detailed description:
First, there is a definite arc of travel, that has to include the following for reliable operation. It needs a slight free travel before the sear moves, the complete travel of the sear engagement surface out from under the hammer hook and an amount of free travel after the hammer is released. The initial free travel is adjusted by the hex screw located in the front of the trigger assembly and should be adjusted while watching the trigger bar contact the sear arm. There needs to be just the slightest gap with the trigger relaxed. All weight of this section of the arc is provided by the first-stage adjustment screw located behind the trigger blade.
Next, when the trigger bar contacts the sear arm, the sear weight is added to the first-stage spring for the total first stage weight. Note, that the arc of travel is constant from sear engagement through hammer release. The length of this arc is not adjustable, but the point at which the second stage is picked up within the arc is adjustable via the second-stage adjustment assembly.
The second-stage assembly should be fully understood before making final adjustments. The assembly consists of an outer cylinder that allows for adjusting the point at which the second-stage is picked up within the arc. The inner section has a plunger that contacts the trigger and provides the second-stage weight. The inner adjustment should always allow the plunger to be free to travel fully into the outer portion. This travel is the longest portion of roll that can be achieved, but in order to get its full application, the outer adjustment needs to be set so the plunger is just shy of flush when the trigger is resting on the over-travel stop. The outer adjustment should always allow the trigger to reach its full travel to the trigger over-travel stop.
The stop is adjustable by pulling down the trigger guard and using the long allen wrench within the frame slot for the slide cross piece. The trigger over-travel stop should allow for the sear to be completely free of the hammer, so it doesn't drag at all after release.
Let me (us) know of specific questions and I (and others) will try to help some more.
I will try but most of this is over my head. I just don't want to screw anything up. I'm more of a visual person. I rely a lot on You Tube.
Bill
messenger- Posts : 1030
Join date : 2011-06-18
Location : North Carolina
Re: roll trigger in a 208S
by Ed Hall Fri Aug 02, 2024 7:49 am
I'll let you look this over and post again with what is still "fuzzy." Meanwhile, I'll try to put together a detailed step-by-step procedure for all the adjustments. I might take a little while to complete the write up of all the steps.messenger wrote:I will try but most of this is over my head. I just don't want to screw anything up. I'm more of a visual person. I rely a lot on You Tube.
Bill
Ed Hall- Posts : 1084
Join date : 2012-09-10
Location : Adirondack Mountains -
Re: roll trigger in a 208S
by Ed Hall Fri Aug 02, 2024 9:32 am
Here is a step by step procedure for adjusting the Hammerli 208s two-stage trigger.
1. Start with an empty gun with no magazine or ammo nearby.
2. Make sure you have all the tools needed for all the adjustments.
3. Remove the grip panels.
4. Remove the magazine catch and mainspring.
5. Make sure the hammer is all the way inside the frame with the sear under the hammer hook. The hammer should be kept in the frame (fully cocked) for the next adjustment.
6. While looking closely at the trigger bar hook where it grabs the sear arm, apply a tiny bit of trigger pressure to make sure there is a small bit of play before the sear arm is contacted.
7. If needed, adjust this play with the allen screw just ahead of the trigger blade on its assembly.
8. Remove the slide. Keep track of the trigger bar to make sure it stays in place.
9. For the second stage adjustment (behind the trigger in the magazine well), a spanner screwdriver would be better, but if using the original multi-tool or a "properly dimensioned screwdriver, you may first need to adjust the inner hex adjustment out of the way for the tool/screwdriver.
10. Back the outer adjustment out far enough that there is no contact with the trigger when it is fully back.
11. With the trigger held back (again, keep track of the trigger bar), rotate the hammer fully upward in its arc. Check that there is a tiny bit of clearance with the sear for the entire arc past the hook. The width of this clearance is the over-travel.
12. If needed, the over-travel can be adjusted using the long allen wrench in the "hard to find" adjustment screw. The screw is located behind the trigger guard post that sits in the frame when fully closed. There is a small shelf on one side of the guard that is supposed to allow it to be held open more easily by applying a bit of side pressure, but it's minmal and may not even be felt.
13. Again, when the over-travel is proper, the hammer should be totally free from the sear thoughout its arc, with the trigger fully pressed.
14. This next part is going to be a bit complex, because what we need to do is set up the second-stage such that the plunger has free travel all the way into the outer section and that the trigger hits the over-travel just prior to the plunger tip becoming flush.
15. Find the inner adjustment point where the plunger spring goes solid with the tip even with the end of the outer cylinder.
16. If the inner adjustment is interfering with the outer slots, turn the inner adjustment in to relieve the interference, while counting the number of turns made.
17. In steps, do the following:
17a. Turn the outer adjustment in to move the tip toward the trigger blade.
17b. If needed to allow the plunger full travel, turn it back out the number of turns from step 16.
17c. Make sure that the trigger can make it to the over-travel before it fully compresses the second-stage plunger.
17d. Go back through all of steps 16 and 17 as much as needed to meet the criteria.
18. Step 17 should have provided for the maximum amount of roll, via the second-stage. If less roll is desired, the outer adjustment can be backed out. This will increase the first stage length of travel as it decreases the second. Take note that there should be a little bit of second stage, so that the second-stage point is not right at the hammer release point.
19. The first stage weight can be adjusted with the tiny allen screw found behind the trigger blade. Note that the trigger blade will possibly need to be slid forward to access the adjustment, and that the weight may change with the placement of the blade on its rail.
20. The second-stage weight can be adjusted via the inner portion of the second-stage assembly, but note that if increased too much it can stop the trigger movement prior to it reaching the over-travel.
21. Replace the slide.
22. Replace the mainspring and magazine catch.
23. Replace the grip panels.
24. Test the stage weights and balance and make any further minor adjustments as needed (keeping in mind that the trigger should be able to reach the over-travel.
Anyone: Please feel free to correct/question any portion of the above.
1. Start with an empty gun with no magazine or ammo nearby.
2. Make sure you have all the tools needed for all the adjustments.
3. Remove the grip panels.
4. Remove the magazine catch and mainspring.
5. Make sure the hammer is all the way inside the frame with the sear under the hammer hook. The hammer should be kept in the frame (fully cocked) for the next adjustment.
6. While looking closely at the trigger bar hook where it grabs the sear arm, apply a tiny bit of trigger pressure to make sure there is a small bit of play before the sear arm is contacted.
7. If needed, adjust this play with the allen screw just ahead of the trigger blade on its assembly.
8. Remove the slide. Keep track of the trigger bar to make sure it stays in place.
9. For the second stage adjustment (behind the trigger in the magazine well), a spanner screwdriver would be better, but if using the original multi-tool or a "properly dimensioned screwdriver, you may first need to adjust the inner hex adjustment out of the way for the tool/screwdriver.
10. Back the outer adjustment out far enough that there is no contact with the trigger when it is fully back.
11. With the trigger held back (again, keep track of the trigger bar), rotate the hammer fully upward in its arc. Check that there is a tiny bit of clearance with the sear for the entire arc past the hook. The width of this clearance is the over-travel.
12. If needed, the over-travel can be adjusted using the long allen wrench in the "hard to find" adjustment screw. The screw is located behind the trigger guard post that sits in the frame when fully closed. There is a small shelf on one side of the guard that is supposed to allow it to be held open more easily by applying a bit of side pressure, but it's minmal and may not even be felt.
13. Again, when the over-travel is proper, the hammer should be totally free from the sear thoughout its arc, with the trigger fully pressed.
14. This next part is going to be a bit complex, because what we need to do is set up the second-stage such that the plunger has free travel all the way into the outer section and that the trigger hits the over-travel just prior to the plunger tip becoming flush.
15. Find the inner adjustment point where the plunger spring goes solid with the tip even with the end of the outer cylinder.
16. If the inner adjustment is interfering with the outer slots, turn the inner adjustment in to relieve the interference, while counting the number of turns made.
17. In steps, do the following:
17a. Turn the outer adjustment in to move the tip toward the trigger blade.
17b. If needed to allow the plunger full travel, turn it back out the number of turns from step 16.
17c. Make sure that the trigger can make it to the over-travel before it fully compresses the second-stage plunger.
17d. Go back through all of steps 16 and 17 as much as needed to meet the criteria.
18. Step 17 should have provided for the maximum amount of roll, via the second-stage. If less roll is desired, the outer adjustment can be backed out. This will increase the first stage length of travel as it decreases the second. Take note that there should be a little bit of second stage, so that the second-stage point is not right at the hammer release point.
19. The first stage weight can be adjusted with the tiny allen screw found behind the trigger blade. Note that the trigger blade will possibly need to be slid forward to access the adjustment, and that the weight may change with the placement of the blade on its rail.
20. The second-stage weight can be adjusted via the inner portion of the second-stage assembly, but note that if increased too much it can stop the trigger movement prior to it reaching the over-travel.
21. Replace the slide.
22. Replace the mainspring and magazine catch.
23. Replace the grip panels.
24. Test the stage weights and balance and make any further minor adjustments as needed (keeping in mind that the trigger should be able to reach the over-travel.
Anyone: Please feel free to correct/question any portion of the above.
Ed Hall- Posts : 1084
Join date : 2012-09-10
Location : Adirondack Mountains -
ermakevin and JHHolliday like this post
DA/SA- Posts : 1483
Join date : 2017-10-09
Age : 68
Location : Southeast Florida
Re: roll trigger in a 208S
by mbmshooter Fri Aug 02, 2024 2:04 pm
Ed Hall wrote:I'll let you look this over and post again with what is still "fuzzy." Meanwhile, I'll try to put together a detailed step-by-step procedure for all the adjustments. I might take a little while to complete the write up of all the steps.messenger wrote:I will try but most of this is over my head. I just don't want to screw anything up. I'm more of a visual person. I rely a lot on You Tube.
Bill
Ed,
Thank you for posting such a detailed description of the trigger adjustment for the 208s. I am very fortunate to have a good friend, Alan Barcon, who was taught by Larry Carter. Alan was nice enough to adjust the trigger on my 208s to absolute perfection! I believe your instructions should enable others to do a very fine job by themselves.
Mike
mbmshooter- Posts : 249
Join date : 2011-06-11
Location : Prescott, Arizona
Re: roll trigger in a 208S
by messenger Fri Aug 02, 2024 2:34 pm
Ed,
I appreciate you taking the time to do this detailed explanation. I will let you know my results. FWIW you did roll triggers on a Les Baer and a Rock River for me at least ten years ago. To this day they were the best roll triggers I have ever had. I shot my all-time best 2700 with the Les Baer.
Bill
I appreciate you taking the time to do this detailed explanation. I will let you know my results. FWIW you did roll triggers on a Les Baer and a Rock River for me at least ten years ago. To this day they were the best roll triggers I have ever had. I shot my all-time best 2700 with the Les Baer.
Bill
messenger- Posts : 1030
Join date : 2011-06-18
Location : North Carolina
Re: roll trigger in a 208S
by Ed Hall Fri Aug 02, 2024 4:57 pm
Bill,messenger wrote:Ed,
I appreciate you taking the time to do this detailed explanation. I will let you know my results. FWIW you did roll triggers on a Les Baer and a Rock River for me at least ten years ago. To this day they were the best roll triggers I have ever had. I shot my all-time best 2700 with the Les Baer.
Bill
Thank you for the trigger praise, but I believe that was Doug Hall who performed the work on your Les Baer. I've never taken to working directly on others' firearms, past parts replacement and minor adjustments.
Ed Hall- Posts : 1084
Join date : 2012-09-10
Location : Adirondack Mountains -
Re: roll trigger in a 208S
by chopper Sun Aug 04, 2024 7:04 pm
Ed what size is that 1st stage weight allen screw behind the trigger blade?
I don't see a screw head there.
Thanks, Stan
I don't see a screw head there.
Thanks, Stan
chopper- Posts : 819
Join date : 2013-10-29
Age : 72
Location : Western Iowa
Re: roll trigger in a 208S
by Ed Hall Mon Aug 05, 2024 7:15 am
It's 0.9mm according to the manual. You may need to slide the blade forward on its rail to get to the socket. IIRC, it's within a slightly larger access hole, maybe at the base of the tab that activates the second-stage.chopper wrote:Ed what size is that 1st stage weight allen screw behind the trigger blade?
I don't see a screw head there.
Thanks, Stan
Ed Hall- Posts : 1084
Join date : 2012-09-10
Location : Adirondack Mountains -
Re: roll trigger in a 208S
by chopper Mon Aug 05, 2024 7:57 am
Thanks Ed, I better get out the magnifiers and some better light. I know the 1.5mm is way too big. I see McMaster Carr has it, I better order extras as small as they are.Ed Hall wrote:It's 0.9mm according to the manual. You may need to slide the blade forward on its rail to get to the socket. IIRC, it's within a slightly larger access hole, maybe at the base of the tab that activates the second-stage.chopper wrote:Ed what size is that 1st stage weight allen screw behind the trigger blade?
I don't see a screw head there.
Thanks, Stan
Stan
chopper- Posts : 819
Join date : 2013-10-29
Age : 72
Location : Western Iowa
Re: roll trigger in a 208S
by Ed Hall Mon Aug 05, 2024 8:20 am
It's the tiniest Allen wrench I've ever seen and it comes in the original Hammerli set with the gun. Again, IIRC, the adjustment is actually within a cross pin that rocks within the upper part of the trigger assembly. I remember long ago having to replace mine, but the memory is a bit "foggy."
Ed Hall- Posts : 1084
Join date : 2012-09-10
Location : Adirondack Mountains -
Re: roll trigger in a 208S
by gwhite Mon Aug 05, 2024 9:39 am
Could be worse... McMaster also sells a 0.7 mm hex key. They go with 1.4 mm set screws.
Fortunately, I've never seen a pistol that uses one.
Fortunately, I've never seen a pistol that uses one.
gwhite- Posts : 117
Join date : 2019-09-30
Re: roll trigger in a 208S
by -TT- Mon Aug 05, 2024 10:34 am
0.9mm is .035" which is often available in the hardware store nuts and bolts aisle. If it's not in the regular "inch" hex keys drawer, look in the miniature inch screws drawer, which is where I found mine. They fit the #2 setscrew.
-TT-- Posts : 624
Join date : 2016-10-18
Re: roll trigger in a 208S
by jglenn21 Tue Aug 06, 2024 4:28 am
Yep.9mm. Buy 3 of them so you'll have spares when You lose them 
jglenn21- Posts : 2618
Join date : 2015-04-07
Age : 76
Location : monroe , ga
chopper likes this post
Re: roll trigger in a 208S
by jwax Thu Aug 08, 2024 4:05 pm
https://www.amazon.com/Wiha-35392-Piece-L-Key-Metric/dp/B001ATKWJY/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3IBHQRWPKK2LF&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.5mp77r8m56yAJiSauMi6o7cBr8nWgwSK06tkJCmIiyxni_Z4nC63sPr2g3x2QpQS1Q6E8dQSrAWTKKWDuyNgXfknoLqDwJIXsAy-xo8b2OpZtnKLAf69Z4O0AF9UmekCxzzyg664-DJD-D6UFPBck-dOvmDVLY-8mLgP1eaIy4nTLzrpH6YX64HyjUkZscPRPJRNJRsDoNLYQvOTtLd1eYj-tsDsYAaG5AVpNHUCcQm_ZNNCbzJ7QRGPY0TXE9YYik3Ep3QuE_-iATVsy28LO30ww2hqOOmEkZYkS_Ce-8M.AX1uKRlHRIrwHjE-L3YbMejPAZeV5Byj-BDmoZTxsEw&dib_tag=se&keywords=Miniature%2Ballen%2Bwrench&qid=1723158167&sprefix=miniature%2Ballen%2Bwrench%2Caps%2C292&sr=8-1&th=1
Buy 2!
Buy 2!
jwax- Posts : 587
Join date : 2011-06-10
Location : Western ny
Re: roll trigger in a 208S
by DA/SA Thu Aug 08, 2024 4:29 pm
Where I have been puzzled right from the start, is what constitutes the first stage? There seems to be slight take-up until the trigger mechanism contacts the plunger, then constant pressure until the trigger breaks as the plunger travels inward, with the outer adjustment regulating the amount of roll.Ed Hall wrote:
19. The first stage weight can be adjusted with the tiny allen screw found behind the trigger blade. Note that the trigger blade will possibly need to be slid forward to access the adjustment, and that the weight may change with the placement of the blade on its rail.
20. The second-stage weight can be adjusted via the inner portion of the second-stage assembly, but note that if increased too much it can stop the trigger movement prior to it reaching the over-travel.
21. Replace the slide.
22. Replace the mainspring and magazine catch.
23. Replace the grip panels.
24. Test the stage weights and balance and make any further minor adjustments as needed (keeping in mind that the trigger should be able to reach the over-travel.
Anyone: Please feel free to correct/question any portion of the above.
Should there be slight take-up, then some resistance of a first stage, then a heavier second stage?
I've only shot 1911's , a 41, and High Standards, so I have no idea what a two stage trigger is supposed to feel like. When I got the 208s it was set up with a 1.5 lb crisp trigger.
Thanks for any additional help on this!
DA/SA- Posts : 1483
Join date : 2017-10-09
Age : 68
Location : Southeast Florida
Re: roll trigger in a 208S
by DA/SA Thu Aug 08, 2024 4:54 pm
OK, I think I am getting somewhere. This thing was so far off that the first stage adjustment screw was backed all the way off and just wobbling around. With that .9mm wrench and less than 1/4 turn at a time, I was not getting anywhere and was concerned about damaging something with as much turning as it took to get any first stage feel. I finally got the first stage up to 14 oz. and the trigger breaks at 3#. Final adjustments at the range this weekend.
Thanks for the directions on this, Ed!
Thanks for the directions on this, Ed!
DA/SA- Posts : 1483
Join date : 2017-10-09
Age : 68
Location : Southeast Florida
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