.22 practice ammo

First topic message reminder :

Given the current state of the ammo market I'm probably going to have to buy whatever I can find, but I'd like a little information to proceed with. Does anyone have any opinions about the various standard velocity rounds? Can anyone rank what's out there in relation to the others? What is generally good and what is generally bad?

CCI?
Remington?
Federal?
Winchester?
Wolf?
Others?

I'd like to know what to jump on and which to avoid.


Thanks.

In May 2013, I bought a case of SK Std Plus for $530 delivered to the house. I have had great luck with this ammo (same as Wolf match/target, all made by Lapua) and I have seen some places try to get that much for junk 22 LR. I am not good enough with a handgun to justify paying more for ammo for pistol matches. That case, along with some odds and ends I have, will keep me for a couple of years. It has shot well in everything I tried it in. YMMV.

rodnak wrote:Thank you for sharing Virgil. You put in a huge amount of time and effort on this chart!

I wish it was my chart but it's not, thanks anyway.  
 It is very helpful in finding similar ammo.

I haven't yet tried SK Standard Plus (from Lapua) in my pistol, but my rifle-shooting friend converted to it after I gave him a few boxes to shoot at a match. It's priced reasonably at around $50-60 per brick and in his rifle, groups significantly better than anything CCI, Remington or Winchester. It seems like a great compromise between those cheaper brands and the other European "target" stuff which often costs twice as much.

if you have a choice, avoid Remington and Winchester. cci,  federal  wolf and SK, eley, aguila rws,lapua will all do well.

I had a friend and mentor in this game advise me of the same regarding the SK Standard Plus. I have a stash that will last awhile as well thank God.

Thanks for all the replies.

Too bad about Eley Sport.  I've blown through several cases of it and found it an excellent value.  Never once did I have a bad round.  It was a little stinky, but that never bothered me.

I liked the Eley Sport also, shoots real well in the MKII, and as good as I can hold.  I bought a case every time Sportsmans Guide had it on sale. I still have a few cases, and go through a lot.  

That said, it didn't shoot very well in my Annie prone match rifle, it liked the SK/Wolf stuff. I remember when Wolf was cheap, I bought it for $179 a case from CC and Brunos, last case I bought was twice that.  Now its way over $500 a case if you can find it. Yep, I'm a hoarder, but I only bought when it was cheap and plentiful, I'm sure glad now!

john bickar wrote:Thank you kczerwin.

"...doe$ not perform to our required $pecification$" is more like it. I had some extremely good results with that stuff. Maybe I lucked out and only got the good lots

I'm on my fourth case. I have used it in a 41, Kart, Marvel, and Bob M Custom Pro and only wish I could get another 4 for the price.

We mortals only seem to encounter the SV "entry level' or "low end" for inflated prices at shows etc. Possibly ammo makers have decided they will make the profit, or increase it, and are just running the higher priced stuff??

Our club runs a public line 6 days and 2 evenings weekly. Reports are that participation is down somewhat. It is a little hard for me to accept the proposition that production and sales to the public are up but shooting down as only hoarders or resellers are buying the stuff. Shooters (we target shooters) who have bought by the case for years can't find it and not any of the increased production is escaping to ranges???  Isn't a particular goal being achieved?

Ron Habegger

Yeah, I used to accept the argument that people were hoarding and that people were buying more 22 rifles/pistols but I am not seeing that at the ranges I frequent.  There is a YouTube video showing CCI making 2 million rounds a day 350 days a year out of one plant.  When you add all the manufactures together you get a number that is too high to explain it away by hoarders.  Something IS going on.

Chip

Don't know Chip. I'm get to a Walmart a couple times a week, and always check the ammo counter. At one time it was empty, now it has everything except .22rf.

I asked the guy behind the counter if they get any .22rf in. He said they get the same amount they always have. I asked why don't I see it?. He said I never will coming at this time (10AM). He said a line forms at 6:AM, the ammo is put out, and its gone in about 10 minutes. Walmart mostly only has the cheaper stuff like milk cartons, and other HIV stuff.

I go to a gun show and there is plenty of ammo, but the milk cartons with $80 price tags on them. I'm guessing this happening everywhere, the buying up of ammo, and scalping it at gun shows or where ever.

The govmt types I shoot with say their budget has been cut, and they don't get practice ammo like they used to.

There are lots of conspiracy theories out there, I even saw one that said the post office was buying it all up. Never know, could be true. But again, millions of rounds a day produced?

Last time I was in Walmart they had a few boxes of 100ct CCI Mini mags. I went to two gun shops with a friend visiting, and one shop had four different kinds of .22rf, the other had some also. I think it is turning the corner. Primers are around, but powder is still scarce. Wonder where that is going.....

As a small gun shop I thought I would throw what I know out there.  One of the reasons that you don't see .22 ammo, primers and powder on the shelfs is that we (dealers) have large amounts backordered with our vendors. In turn we have backorders and long waiting list from our customers. So whenever we get a shipment in it is already sold, therefore it never makes it to the shelfs. 

On a side note, I was talking to one of the major vendors about a week ago and they said the they receive powder and primer shipments every week. And I ask about .22 and they said besides occasional shipment of SK/Lapua and Eley they never get any. 

Nathan

ChipEck wrote:Yeah, I used to accept the argument that people were hoarding and that people were buying more 22 rifles/pistols but I am not seeing that at the ranges I frequent.  There is a YouTube video showing CCI making 2 million rounds a day 350 days a year out of one plant.  When you add all the manufactures together you get a number that is too high to explain it away by hoarders.  Something IS going on.

Chip

I thought the same thing but we sat around and did some math.

The estimate is there are 75-100 million gun owners in the US and I'd guess nearly all own a 22 - remember this number.  The initial ammo shortage didn't impact 22lr but when center fire ammo started to dry up and prices also went up people started to buy 22 ammo to shoot.  Well when that happened people who would normally go into Walmart and buy 100 rounds to shoot on the weekend couldn't find any.  Which usually means the next time they go in they "stock up" and maybe buy 500 rounds.  Then when store started putting limits on purchases additional demand got created because people have a tendency to buy something on "allocation" every time they see it on the shelf so the 500 becomes 1,000.  Buying an extra 500 or a 1,000 rounds could hardly be called hoarding. 

Why that is a huge problem?  Most all ammo manufacturers were at capacity before the increased demand.

The math:
Panic talk spread like wild fire!  Lets say only 10% of gun owners (7.5M) decide to buy that extra 500 rounds.  Well this is 3.7 Billion more rounds than the industry has capacity, remember they were at capacity before the panic.  

The industry produces 4.2 Billion rounds a year, but the "panic" demand could be 2-4 times that, nobody knows. 

The longer it goes maybe the number becomes 20-30% of gun owners buying a 1,000 extra rounds.  That would be 4-5 years of the industries production.

The other side of the spike. 
When ammo begins to show up demand will crash and people will start shooting down their inventories.  There will be huge sales as ammo starts pile up on store shelves!!!

Chip, Ken, 6M, Droning,
You gents have all given this some thought and have made good points.

A long time comp shooter/dealer told me a yr so ago their association had identified double the number of customers that previously made ammo, firearms and related purchases. I think the original number was 20 million which would mean 40k.

Some random points;
The calculations tell us how much EXTRA demand/consumption exists.  Why aren't at least a few of us who have been buying by the case on a regular basis for years finding any?
 
We use mostly standard velocity. Not many others care about it. Mfgr's probably don't want to break into long production runs to make it.

The Government has no need for quantities of rimfire.

During the '70's I dealt w/ raw material shortages in my job in mfg.
The public experienced rolling shortages (various) in the late 70's & 80's.
An artificial toilet paper shortage occurred after a rumor was planted!?

But these shortages of the past did not last for yrs.

Barack Obama can't get gun control legislation passed.

Why isn't more of the ammo being shot?

If many people have 1,000 rds set back it's not enough ammo/money i to be of concern. Is it lost to use forever?

A frequent range customer says there is no problem, just go to Wal Mart early. I have so much I'm thinking about selling some." How much? "$40 per bulk pack" he said. I think they are 350 or 450 rds?

I have never bought @ Wal Mart  as I haven't found SV there.

Government debt, spending, $ printing leads to inflation.

"American Rifleman "explained" the shortage but told us nothing  new.
Are there persons/groups to whom this situation is desirable? If so, why?

What do these and other factors mean? Or not mean?

Ron Habegger