Laoua 83 grain loads, 32 SWL Pardini HP32

Recently I loaded 1.6 N310, 83 grain Lapua HBWC. for my Pardini HP32 and they all functioned (YEA) and they 83's were very accurate and less felt recoil than the 98 grain. But's its a warm load and needed (770 FPS) but manageable recoil and I was thinking that maybe Tite Group, W231, W244, Bullseye (although short on supply) or other powders would give a softer recoil and give me some options. So I came to the Bullseye shooters to get some ideas. 

The 83 grain Lapua shoots very well in my pistool and the recoil is less than the 98. 

I would appreciate any input I could get from the people reading this. 

Thanks!!
Brian Miller

I know folks using 0.8 gr 310 but I'm surprised that it leaves the bbl and penetrates the paper

Greetings,

"very accurate"???

Please post some test targets fired at 50 yards.

Cheers,

Dave

Hey Dave!!

I don't shoot 50 yards but 25 yards for our outdoor league. We are now shooting 50' indoor as I live in Michigan. We run out of light and it's colder.

I did not save the targets but the scores for the 83 grain and 1.6 N310 were 76 Slow, 83 timed and rapid was shot with a much hotter load and I believe rapid was 63 and I had trouble controlling it. I was trying a couple of loads for our practice. 

I would consider the 1.6 N310, 83 gr Lapua HBWC a warmer than usual load from what I have shot in the past but the Pardini HP 32 apparently requires a hotter load to function properly. 

I did find my other unopened bottle of Bullseye(YEA!!) so i loaded some 1.7 Bullseye 98 Lapua and this functioned the pistol and is a much softer load and accurate than N310. I have that target on my phone and I'll get it transferred to the computer to attach later. 

I am going to load the the same weight --1.6 Bullseye, 83 Lapua and see how this performs. 

I'm ecstatic that I found the bottle of Bullseye because I can't find this anywhere. 

THanks for your comments!!
Brian Miller

Greetings,

I found an old test target that may be of benefit.

Commercial loaded Lapua 83 grain Lot #4318023.

Ten shots fired at 50 yards using a factory Pardini HP barrel.

Cheers,

Dave

Hey Dave!!

That does help and thanks for the photo of Lapua factory 83. It surprises me that the Lapua round is that slow of a round compared to current products from Lapua. 

I am going to load 1.6 Bullseye, 83 Lapua HBWC and see what that does and I will take some pictures. 

I'm also going to try 1.65 WST, 83 Lapua.

I do not have a Chronograph. Is there one you like that does not break the bank? That would be a big benefit. 

Thanks!!
Brian Miller

Greetings,

The older Hornady loading manuals had proven loads for their 90 grain HBWC.

I would suspect that using their data with 83 grain bullets would be safe.

Cheers,

Dave

Hello Dave!!
I had a Lyman Manual that had 90 gr HBWC and the load for Bullseye was a maximum of 2.0 gr and produced 700 ft/sec. 

So I loaded 1.9, 83 gr Lapua (max is 2.0??) and that was the best load of the ones I tried but I still had failures to feed, Usually the second round. I don't think that .1 grain would make a difference ??

I loaded 1.7 Bullseye , 98 Lapua and 1.62 WST, 83 grain but these loads had more failures than the 1.9, 83 Lapua. 

So the next load is W231 which is also listed in the Lyman Manual. I think I will load 2.1 gr with an 83 Lapua to test. 

I have some new recoil springs coming and I'm going to change to a new spring an see if that helps.

Thanks!!
Brian Miller

I ordered a new recoil spring for my Pardini HP 32 thinking that was the problem and the failures to feed got much worse. The new Spring is 9/16" longer than what was in the pistol. My loads were: 1.4 N310, 98 HBWC and an 83 Lapua HBWC and 1.7 Bullseye, 98 grain HBWC. I have 6 mags and only 2 functioned normally. THe holes in the target are clean holes and I'm shooting at 50'. I'm going to put back the shorter recoil springs. I wonder if someone sells a softer spring.?

Recoil springs on Pardini SP22 / HP32 get shorted with use.  It is normal.  Your feeding problem in HP32 might be related to lead build-up in leed and chamber of the barrel.  Former exhibits itself in incomplete bolt closing, and latter - round getting stuck at approximately 45 degrees dead ending at the roof of the barrel. 

However you have not described specifics of the feeding problem, so that's speculation on my part.

AP

Your problem sounds like it is to do with seating depth of bullet and/or crimp. Seat bullets so that they are flush with case mouth, or even a hair deeper. Then roll crimp so that there is absolutely no sharp edge of any kind at case mouth.

Pardini magazines are very sensitive to ammo OAL. If after loading rounds the ammo sticks or is even slightly "stiff" you will suffer mis-feeds. I use a speed loader ani after the 5th round loaded I repeatedly press down and release to make very sure that everything is free to move. If you ammo sticks/stiff that is almost certain to be over-length issue. Very tight margins 

This may not be relevant to your specific problem, but I bought an "old stock" case of factory Lapua, all kinds of problems, then realized that some of the bullets had started to corrode (white lead oxide). I used a Lee factory crimp die after spraying Hornady one shot on to the ammo. That totally fixed the problem.

Also, make sure that the slide/bolt is locked back (open) before you insert a loaded magazine, then release the slide/bolt, otherwise pushing the magazine with the slide/bolt closed tends to push down on the ammo and slightly tips the 1st round mouth down, very likely to then fail to feed the 1st and subsequent rounds.

Hello Roy!!

Thanks for your thoughts. When you look at my bullets they are slightly below the rim of the case and the taper is .325 and you can visibly the taper with your naked eye. I can seat the bullet deeper  to see if it makes a difference. I also use the Lee factory crimp die.  

I always lock the bolt back, insert the magazine and then pull back on the bolt handles and release. 

I'm sending another pisture of the loaded round showing taper and seating.

Thanks!!
Brian Miller

Brian,

I have two questions that might be relevant.
1.  Shape of the holes on target and image of the bullets on pictures contradict you saying that Lapua bullets being used.  I doubt this could be a culprit of of the problem though.
2.  Picture of the gun suggests that you are using 32 conversion kit on otherwise 22 pistol.  I want to make sure that you are using recoil spring that is specific to 32 conversion.  Recoil spring for 32 caliber is shorter than one for 22, but uses thicker wire.  It provides more recoil power than 22. 

Couple suggestions:
1.  Cleaning - purchasing bore scope helped me with identifying issue with leading.  I was surprised to find out that it takes very few round before leading starts building up.  I started using two barrels in CF matches after that in order to avoid alibis in sustained fire.  I clean both barrels after each match / training session, and bore scope them to make sure I removed all lead deposits.  Thus my recommendation would be to clean barrel after each time you shoot.
2.  Decrease crimp from 0.325" to 0.329".  Semi-autos don't need such a heavy roll crimp.
3.  You mentioned that you have two magazines that are trouble free (?).  If that is correct, compare spacing between rear lips on all magazines.  Also check for any burs.  Some polishing might be beneficial.  However please be careful making adjustments by bending lips.
4.  Carefully lightly polish area at the roof of the barrel where rounds get stuck.

I would suggest trying above one step at the time as opposed to doing all at once.  If you see that cleaning initially helped, take a note as to how many rounds you shot before problem reappeared.  I also would use only one or two magazines for this test.

AP

Hello AP!!

Yes this was initially a conversion and then I made it to a complete pistol by buying a frame. Alex from Pardini USA had this frame in stock and he offered me a good price so I purchased the frame. 

I asked if I needed a HP 32 frame and he said this will be good. I have since asked the question if this frame could be the problem and of course the answer is the frame is not the problem. I have thought about purchasing an HP frame and see what happens.?? 

The recoil spring is 9/16" shorter than a new recoil spring. That made matters worse when out in the new spring.  

Yes that is a different bullet bit I was asked the question about the crimp and that's what I had in my pictures.

He tells me the issue is the velocity of the round need to operate the pistol properly. I told I need 787 FPS. 

I will look at the other issues you ask about.

THanks!!
Brian Miller

Greetings,

So this is a "parts gun"?

Post a photo showing the rear of the 32 bolt. This will help determine what version you have.

While the gun is apart, shine a light down the frame bolt channel to see if there is a Urethane Buffer Pad.

With the grip removed, you should be able to see a 1/4" hole, at the rear where the old style buffers were installed. It the hole is there and you can slip a rod through into the frame bolt channel, you do not have the buffer.

My thinking is that the bolt is striking the frame and bouncing off rather than a smooth recoil.

The gun should function with Commercial ammo.

Cheers,

Dave

I discussed the SP/HP frame issue with Alex/Vlad during the summer and they tell me that all current production Pardini frames are identical except for the HP or SP logo on the side. I don't think that the current HP32's use the buffer at the back of the frame, but I am not certain about that. I need to clean my fairly recent 32SWL tomorrow - I will try to remember to look see if the buffer is installed - later.

Hello Dave!!

Here are pictures of the Pardini Bolt. This is after 30 rounds of 1.6 N310 and a 83 Lapua HBWC. All magazines at the match 10/30/24 all had failures to feed. I looked down the center of the frame with the bolt removed and I could not see any Urethane Buffer pad. I don't buy the argument its the ammo and velocity of the ammo but rather something in the frame, slide function, bolt function or/and magazine problems..

I have decided after last night to send the pistol back to Pardini for their full inspection. I expect this pistol to shoot like my SP 22 which is flawless functioning. They are the xperts and and I would not have selected this pistol and spent all this money if I didn't think they would stand behind their product and fix the issues. 

Thanks!!
Brian Miller

Sorry, I missed some of the recent steps in this thread. Re' the photos of your reloads, yes, I agree with AP that you are over-crimping. Does not need to be as pronounced as that. Just enough to create a smooth end with no sharp edge. I see that you have the bullets quite deeply seated, possibly a hair too deep!

I know that you intend to return the complete gun to Pardini, I sympathize with your frustration.

Have you tried any factory ammo? I am very satisfied with Sellier & Bellot 100WC. It can be had for about $22/box:-

https://ammoseek.com/ammo/32sw-long/Sellier%20and%20Bellot

Shot several hundred rounds of that recently. The only issues were when I forgot to lock back the bolt before inserting the magazine. And, as I mentioned before, I now always use my speedloader to repeatedly press down on the 5th round to ensure that everything is free to move.

Hello Dave, Roy and AP

Thanks for your comments as they are appreciated very much. I can decrease the seating depth a bit and will try. I can set the crimp to .329 which I will do to see if this works. 

I am told by Pardini that if the recommended load 0f 1.7-1.9 N310 is not loaded they tell me the pistol will not function properly. They will check the frame to make sure it meets specifications and will test with Lapua and Fiocchi higher velocity ammo that meet their specifications. There are many factors that probably are in play here: magazine failure, bolt moving back freely, maybe barrel.??

I have loaded 1.3 98 gr HBWC, 1.4 N310, 98 Bear Creek and 83 gr Lapua, 1.7 Bullseye 98 grain, 1.9 Bullseye 83 Lapua. They all shoot great groups but there is 1 round that does not load consistently at various times.   

They are telling me that they have no legal way of getting the gun to function with the loads I've been using and I am welcome to make modifications myself. HMMMM?? 

There have no changes on my part to the pistol and I don't know what they are referring to?? Any thoughts here what they are discussing? 

This has been very frustrating working with this pistol of Pardini. I will know more when I get the pistol back what my next step is. It's my suspicion they are going to tell me the pistol works fine with the factory ammo they have in stock. 

I have a Walther GSP that just shoots without a hitch but it's heavy for me. And not as accurate as the Pardini. 

Dave are your barrels similar to the GSP in weight just more accurate? What options here?? 

So then it's up to me to get a good gunsmith if I go that direction. 

Open to ideas and thoughts from you all!! 

Thanks!!
Brian Miller