Format of NRA Regional Precision Pistol Matches

2700 or 1800?

With dots so prevalent does the NMC really matter anymore!

3 gun 2700 gets my vote, I like the 900 course of fire and the endurance challenge. One downside would be more a more fatigued state if shooting an EIC match afterword. 

I am not opposed to 3 gun 1800s, as it is the format of the matches I run due to time availability constraints at my club. From a time perspective they are great, especially if you want to incorporate some EIC match at the end. I typically can finish an 1800 match in about 3 1/2-4 hours.

Wobbley wrote:With dots so prevalent does the NMC really matter anymore!

Greetings,

I am still brain storming on how to shoot 2600 at an 1800.

The little grey cells are not happy.

Cheers,

Dave

In years past, if it wasn't a 2700 I wasn't interested in shooting it. Now with shoulder deterioration and tremors, I can't make it through a full 2700. I still go whenever I can, but only shoot the 22 and CF stages.

Whoever said that'll come back to bite you when you're older wasn't lying. 

It still beats working!!!
Al

Up here in the PNW some clubs have opted to go to 1,800's - various reasons have been cited, none really made sense to me, but then I am usually difficult to please!

But, if I factor in the long drive up to the area, usually at least one night in a hotel (I am not willing to get up at 0'whatever, drive for 5 or 6 hours, then shoot - sorry), to only shoot an 1,800 just does not appeal. I know several other shooters in my area who used to make the effort - now they also don't bother.

Pity.

Something like a Regional match, a State Championship, or the National matches deserve to be a 2700. The Interservice matches are a 3600 with a 900 service pistol match added. Used to be a .45 with hardball ammo. Talk about fatigue!

The 2700 is about endurance. It has a place. It encourages physical fitness in a sport that is not seen as a physically demanding sport.

If you cannot make a full 2700 then shoot what you can, as others have said.

But it’s the specials ( 22 EIC, SP EIC, Revolver etc) that really make it a looong day

fc60 wrote:

Wobbley wrote:With dots so prevalent does the NMC really matter anymore!

Greetings,

I am still brain storming on how to shoot 2600 at an 1800.

The little grey cells are not happy.

Cheers,

Dave

NRA records have been trashed since Covid 2020. Never to return I'm guessing.

"But it’s the specials ( 22 EIC, SP EIC, Revolver etc) that really make it a looong day'

I'm so tired of hearing about how long it takes to shoot a 2700. Start promptly at 09.00. 30 mins lunch break. Easily done by 14.30. At latest 15.00 if a lot of alibi's.

The slow pace is usually caused by folks wasting time on the target line. If you know that you've got a shotgun pattern, take a full face target to make repair fast. Don't debate your score, technique, ammo, state of the nation!!! Score, repair and get back!

In Oregon, even with a full line, both match venues get it done smoothly, with time for EIC's, every single month. Rain or shine.

RoyDean wrote:"But it’s the specials ( 22 EIC, SP EIC, Revolver etc) that really make it a looong day'

I'm so tired of hearing about how long it takes to shoot a 2700. Start promptly at 09.00. 30 mins lunch break. Easily done by 14.30. At latest 15.00 if a lot of alibi's.

Look at this from another perspective, that is 6 hours of an activity in on block of time. Many people live fire train, at best, an hour or two a week and likely do little else for conditioning. When one is accustomed to dedicating at best a third of the time to a task, the additional time takes its toll. 

Sort of like a 2 hour drive is often not a problem at all, but a 6 hour drive takes a bit more preparation. 

My preferred match is a 3600 with the Service 900, but those matches are very few and the service portion is skipped by lots of competitors. This type of match also can not be shot in one day either. 

I will say that anything shot at 25/50 yards is better than the 50' gallery course.

The shooting world would be better off with affordable, reliable and accurate electronic targets. Think of the time saved if walks downrange were eliminated! Certainly social interactions would be less, but time and effort spent downrange would be minimal. This would allow many of us to shoot more, not a bad thing.
Opinions?

CMP has a set of Elex targets suitable for pistol.  They’ve tried them at some point but the consensus from the shooters was negative on Elex targets! ( ???). Go Figure.  Rifle shooters have accepted Elex targets but not pistol shooters.  I’m ambivalent as scoring gives me a break from standing around.  

If we had Elex targets, cost would likely mean two relays.  And that would likely mean more time, but not a lot.  The advantage of two relays it’s some resting time.  

Another way of saving a few minutes is to score the 20:shot matches after you shoot your 20 shots.  But that’s only workable for club matches.

I recently made new target frame numbers for our club. One of them had 5 shots thru it (way up on top of the plywood backer).
So I wonder, how do electronic targets fair from errant shots?

They use the electronic targets for HP rifle.  They are hardened for it.

10-20 years ago most if not all of the matches in OR/WA were all 2700's.  Something has changed that people want shorter matches.

Is it just we are all older? We now have more matches after the main event.  It just used to be DR and Service Pistol.  Then 22 was added, now there is a potential of 4 extra matches or 2 more hours of shooting.

Thank you NRA and CMP.

Here’s a time-line to run the various types of pistol aggregates.  The “Scoring” allocation includes the calling shooters to the line etc.  the shooting time adds the commands to load and making the line safe.  Dunno if unit makes sense or not, but it’s at least a number….  This kinda points out the time impact of the “NMC” in the aggregate.  My question is “is the juice worth the squeeze?”.  

Now for Regionals, State Champs, maybe others you could make the case for the time…but others????

Ashley,

From experience it takes about 90 mins on average to shoot a 900. (Unless you are at camp perry then it is 120 mins best case on the last day when they have it all figured out.)  The range is about 80-100 mins for most of the matches I have been too.  It depends on the experience of people scoring and alibis.  Some people are just slow at scoring.  By the time I get back from scoring I tend to wait about 1 minute per target for the last person scoring to make it back to the line.

We finish most 50/25 yd 2700s in a total of 6-6.5 hours depending on how long lunch is.  25 yd matches we tend to finish in 5.5 hours.  30 shot NMC for Reevs takes about 30 mins.

Another data point....when shooting an indoor 50' 900 it takes about 60 mins if you score offline which is our common process. This involves calling the like safe every 10 shots to change targets. We either have others scoring or we score as a group after the 900 and take a break.  this was common when we would shoot a 50' 22 only 2700.

My assumption is if were to have electronic scoring we would see 900 matches in about 50 mins.  I do not think this would be to tiring to shoot a 2700 this way with 15 min breaks between 900's.

If anyone has fired at the Munroe Chester club in downstate NY, their indoor range is fully automated and they run a very fast sectional. Turning targets are motorized and computer controlled. Target changes are done at your station, collected and scored in the club room. You need not leave your station until hooting is completed. Maybe not practical for 25/50yd matches, it does reveal how fast a 900 can be shot..

Like Roy said, It's the talking that takes up the time. I call matches at PRGC, I get back first and eyeball those taking too much time to score. I will go and move them along if I have too. Also, no more one hour lunches, getting people back to the line takes way too long. We get our monthly 2700 done by 2pm. If they want to only shoot an 1800, good for them. 

Happy Thanksgiving to all. 

George

kohlerpartsgod wrote:Like Roy said, It's the talking that takes up the time. I call matches at PRGC, I get back first and eyeball those taking too much time to score. I will go and move them along if I have too. Also, no more one hour lunches, getting people back to the line takes way too long. We get our monthly 2700 done by 2pm. If they want to only shoot an 1800, good for them. 

Happy Thanksgiving to all. 

George

If I did this at my matches, people would elect to not attend.