Trigger manipulation and sympathetic grip changes

Tossing this out for discussion.  As i dry fire I have been working with an eye toward maintaining the exact same grip pressure throughout the trigger press and (in live fire) recoil and recovery. 

As an experiment today I tried consciously increasing my grip pressure slightly in synch and in the same intensity as my trigger finger manipulates the trigger.

With just a bit of practice and grip adjustment, I found that I could keep the sights aligned and i wasn't fighting an natural reaction. I'm tempted to explore this further but being a marksman i wanted to hear the thoughts and reactions from the collected wisdom.

The general consensus is that the trigger finger and gripping fingers should operate independently.  One of the things that changing gripping pressure can change impact point causing displaced shots.

Wobbley wrote:The general consensus is that the trigger finger and gripping fingers should operate independently.  One of the things that changing gripping pressure can change impact point causing displaced shots.

Thanks Ashley.  That’s how I’ve understood what I’m suppose to do (constant pressure and same shot to shot). I *think* that I am replicating the same pressure from dry fire shot to shot, even with the tightening as I press the trigger.  Guess some experimentation is in order to see if that’s actually the case with live fire.

Some things to consider:

Your grip strength (and some other components) will change somewhat throughout a match for several physical reasons.

All grip and trigger pressures should be parallel with the sights to maximize maintaining alignment.

If trigger misalignment is "corrected" via grip pressure, an imbalance will be created when the sear releases the hammer and the trigger pressure momentarily falls away.

The fewer things you consciously try to keep track of, the simpler and easier your process will be to repeat.

Thanks, Ed. I’ll ponder these points.  The basic premise is whether isolating fingers is easier or harder (because you have to think about that consciously) than allowing some minor increase in finger / grip pressure… so long as i am not using it to correct misalignment and i am using front to back pressure increase.

It does seem incorrect to suggest what I’m suggesting. If there’s only one thing moving, there’s only one thing to screw up sight alignment.  Why allow other fingers under the tent (mixed metaphor),.. 

Thanks.

PS in the spirit of someone’s observation that no one bothers to ask 2650 shooters how they broke 2650, how did you achieve it? Hope the answer, if you can share it, isn’t “I didn’t shoot too many nines”… (I forget where I read that and who said it)

I followed Ed's advice over a year ago and did the grip exerciser without the trigger finger.  I now don't think about what the grip is,
just the trigger.  That seems to be a good result for me.

RodJ wrote:. . .
PS in the spirit of someone’s observation that no one bothers to ask 2650 shooters how they broke 2650, how did you achieve it? Hope the answer, if you can share it, isn’t “I didn’t shoot too many nines”… (I forget where I read that and who said it)

Disappointingly, the highest I ever made was 2645 (and the .22 was the weakling at only 879), but I do like to explain how I made HM:

It was an attitude shift!  I'd been focused on breaking the barrier for quite a few matches, but kept falling short.  I stepped back and looked at the big picture and realized I'd really been performing above the magic number, but was so focused on it I kept only almost getting there.  I changed my attitude to a more confident one and shot 2626 and 2627 in the next two matches.

To your last part, and this is something to put some deep thinking into:

If you really learn to actually see your shot process as a truly outside observer, you can tell how the process is unfolding, and if it is following the course that results in a well performed shot, continue.  If not, abort.  Very important!  Look for the signs that tell you to continue, rather than looking for reasons to abort.  Always seek what you desire.

Along with what I have in the previous paragraph, once you learn what that process records to your senses (visual, feeling, etc.), use that for visualization.  Then learn to visualize it in training sessions and in your matches.  Learn to visualize it while it unfolds into your current shot.

Ed that is really interesting and helpful...
I'm hoping the flashing lights that I see are a sign that I am learning something important.

Otherwise I've either got another retinal separation or am about to have a grand mal seizure.

We'll hope it's the former. . .

Let’s hope it’s neither….BTDT, seriously.

Welp, good news... took the advice to heart and decided that i know how to shoot 10s and Xs and I need to go to the line expecting to do the things that result in good shots. Struggled a bit at first with the Ruger Mk ii ... moved to the HS Victor and shot 25 rounds for a 211/250 at the long line. That's astounding for me. But I decided that I am capable of shooting 10's at 50 yards and that I know how to do it. So I did.

Now the external visualization and following the signals of a good shot are creeping in. Lots of work tondo there.

Thanks Ed.

Glad it was helpful, Rod!

bruce martindale wrote:Let’s hope it’s neither….BTDT, seriously.

Former as in, "I'm hoping the flashing lights that I see are a sign that I am learning something important." -RodJ

hi ed hall, i've read your website for about a year now, thank you for p putting together a great resource for shooters.

do you have any good book list that you kurate for shooting? would love some titles to try and find at the library. thank you!

bragrhmbln wrote:hi ed hall, i've read your website for about a year now, thank you for p putting together a great resource for shooters.

do you have any good book list that you kurate for shooting? would love some titles to try and find at the library. thank you!

Lots of good recommendations in this thread on the Forum:
Book Recommendations

Editing in a condensed list:
Feeling Center - Bruce Martindale (Here on the forum)
Pistol Shooter's Treasury - Gil Hebbard (Ebay, sometimes Amazon)
Advanced Pistol Guide - handed out at Camp Perry
With Winning in Mind - Lanny Bassham (Amazon)
Bullseye Mind - Raymond Prior (for sale at Creedmoor Sports)
Ed Hall Articles (Here on the forum)
USMC Pistol Team Workbook (Here on the forum)
Army Marksmanship Unit Training Guide (Amazon)
The Inner Game of Tennis - W. Timothy Gallwey (Amazon)
Golf is Not a Game of Perfect - Bob Rotella (Amazon)
Competitive Pistol Shooting - Laslo Antal (Ebay)
Competitive Shooting - A A Yur'yev (Ebay)
Zen in the Art of Archery - Eugen Herrigel (Amazon)

One of the things that I do in clinics when we start to talk about trigger control is I bring a Nerf mini basketball, or an orange, or a lemon, something hand-sized.

I’ll lob it at someone and they’ll instinctively grab it with all four fingers and the opposable thumb. (This is normally around the part of the evening when people are starting to fall asleep, but the most important part of the curriculum.)

The exercise is quick; it wakes people up; and it illustrates the point that we’re simians. Primate hands with opposable thumbs are an incredibly ingenious device from an engineering standpoint.

Also completely counter to what one needs to shoot a pistol with precision with one hand.

Next match, I am bringing nerf balls and hand-size fruit to throw.  Presumably fruit for the long line and nerfs for the short?

This is good. Keep the advice coming! 8-)

PS, Ed, your advice was gold today when I shot a 900 rimfire match.  Admittedly I am a marksman, but added 30+ points to my best and peered into SS territory.

Great to read, Rod!

The list posted by Ongentho looks pretty good.  I might add Zen and the Art of Archery.  I also like some other types of metaphysical(?) books, but some shooters can't make a connection between those and shooting.  One must remember that shooting has parallels with life itself, and all kinds of other endeavors.