NRA is moving forward with changing NRA Conventional Pistol to "NRA Precision Pistol"

I have received word from Denny Willing that one of the NRA committees has approved the name change for our sport to no longer be "NRA Conventional Pistol" but will instead be named "Precision Pistol".

I believe that this is a HUGE mistake.  Name changes only create confusion.  Remember, NRA says we are all geriatric, senile, senior citizens.  When our shooters search for Conventional pistol matches, they wont find any.  With the way NRA promotes shooting sports, there will be shooters who weren't aware of the change.

Why can't I find any "conventional pistol" matches anymore?  Because they won't exist anymore if this goes through.

I try to think of any institution that changed it's "brand" in a successful way, and I can't think of anything.  The closest I can think of is Coca-Cola to Coke, but they really keep Coca-Cola as the true brand identity.  Name changes just don't work. This is a bad idea.

This change still needs approval from the Competition Rules and Programs Committee and the Board of Directors before it becomes permanent.

If you have comments about this proposed change, you can email me at kovach_robert@hotmail.com and I will forward your email to Denny for submission to the applicable committees.  I do not know when those committees meet so if you intend to comment, sent me your email right away.

-Rob Kovach
kovach_robert@hotmail.com

I really don't see this as a big deal, when ever I tell someone I shoot conventional pistol, they always ask what is that and I have to describe how its "precision" shooting at 25 and 50 yards. But the problem with the NRA, they spend time and money  on things like this when there are more important issues that need attention. But this might help the people that don't know the game understand it better if they don't have someone to explain it to them.

DavidR wrote:I really don't see this as a big deal, when ever I tell someone I shoot conventional pistol, they always ask what is that and I have to describe how its "precision" shooting at 25 and 50 yards. But the problem with the NRA, they spend time and money  on things like this when there are more important issues that need attention. But this might help the people that don't know the game understand it better if they don't have someone to explain it to them.

Pretty much this.  I've frequently described to my non shooting friends that it is a precision shooting sport.

Nothing to see here... move a long.

I like the change, Precision Pistol is a better description of what our sport is and it would be easier to market so let's put some pressure on the NRA to market it! 

- Dave

The new name better describes the sport but the big issue to me is - Will this be a first step in the NRA's efforts to better promote the sport? I think it might be beneficial, when communicating with the NRA and Denny Willing would be to thank him for the name change and ask him what the NRA is planning to do to help revitalize participation in our beloved sport and what WE can do to help in that effort. Rather than challenge, let's engage. Everybody wins. (just my 2 cents)

Precisionpistol.net was available the last time I checked

Been there, done that, got the cards. My Master card says " Lifetime Master Outdoor Pistol ". It doesn't have conventional pistol on there anywhere. Sometime while I was raising a family and getting older they changed the name of the game. I guess they can do it again. I also have a Lifetime Master International Standard Pistol (ISP) card and they don't have them anymore either.

Len

I feel we shouldn't be so quick to smooch up to Denny's posterior just yet.  He obviously has a long term plan which was alluded to in that magazine article last month.  I would rather encourage him to become more trasparent regarding their ideas rather than implementing them to the benefit and/or detriment of us competitors, much like our country's beloved current administration...

I see no harm in this because newbies are already searching for "Bullseye Pistol" and not finding even a "look over here" re-direct on the NRA site.

It will really have no net effect if the NRA continues its benign neglect of competitions in general and BE perhaps a bit more neglected than HP over the course rifle, Silhouette (?), Bianchi Cup, and smallbore rifle. Those and "Conventional" pistol seem to be the only ones that get token support. I can't tell whether the other "splinter" disciplines like HP Sporting Rifle, Smallbore Hunter Pistol Silhouette, and 3-position air rifle ever grew enough to really be part of the discussion. 

But if the name change includes a coordinated, correlated, re-vamp of the NRA website to redirect all competition/info inquiries to the current names of every discipline, then it could even be a good thing.

For example, look at Rob K's post on page two over here:https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t2042p25-hello-bullseye-l-disscussion-of-camp-perry-and-other-from-the-nra-shooting-director?highlight=bullseye+nra+website

 Re: Hello Bullseye - L (Disscussion of Camp Perry and other from the NRA Shooting Director

 by Rob Kovach on Sun Oct 20, 2013 4:31 pm

This was more than a year ago. Anyone listening?

Further down on the same page, s1120 posted some good ideas. Look for  by s1120 on Mon Oct 21, 2013 5:29 am

Rob and s1120 continued:

Rob Kovach wrote:I pretended I didn't know where to find the competition listings and tried to find them with google.  You just CAN'T find them.  I tried searching for NRA matches, NRA competition, you name it.

NRA-start by hiring a good web developer.  I-net in Milwaukee WI would be a good choice.

Yes and its VERY frustrating for a new shooter!!  Then you add in the fact that its known as Bullseye shooting.... but in NRAworld its called conventional pistol. I lucked out becouse I found this site and have learned a TON from you guys!! But the guys that dont spend time on web forums are pretty much out of luck. Everyone I have meet here has been more then helpfull, but untill you get that foot in the door you feel like a outsider, and bullseye a privet club.

I'll shut up now.

Hope someone is listening.

The good news is that Denny has confirmed to me that they are making progress on the new website.  Denny reports that is has improved functionality both for match directors to go through the steps to host matches and enter the scores for submittal.

Denny also stated that the competitor functions will be greatly improved also.  This should make it easier for competitors to find events and matches near them.  If it really does work well, perhaps I will put a redirect on the calendar function of this forum or create a .url that will show up for a google search and redirect to their site.

To find an NRA match now you need to use: http://findnra.nra.org
and select tournament calendar.

I see that the NRA is now being blamed for making a name change.  Please be advised that this change was being done by the Pistol Committee, the members of which are mostly active competitors.  The name change was suggested by none other than Brian Zins, and not me nor the NRA.  Personally I didn't see a need for the name change but I'm not opposed to it either.  I have sort of a whatever attitude with this.

DirComp wrote:I see that the NRA is now being blamed for making a name change.

This is part of the problem.  THE MEMBERS LIKE ME ARE THE NRA, but DirComp's post makes the NRA sound like the "Big Boss" that it has become.  The pistol committee are members who are supposed to represent us--pistol competitors.  The NRA are supposed to represent us as members and competitors--but many of us feel like we are only good for the NRA when they need us to represent responsible gun owners, and the NRA looks at us as an unneeded expense when they don't need us around.

I don't think this is about blame.  It's about a discussion of effective ideas.

Apparently I'm one of very few that believes changing the name would be an ineffective idea.  I have received NO emails that seek to keep the name the same--so no blame to the pistol committee or the NRA--in this case the change has support of the members who weighed in.  Nobody asked my opinion until after it had made it out of the Pistol Committee so I chimed in here.

Perhaps there would be less finger pointing if there was more transparency in the committee workings of the NRA.  Where can competitors see Pistol Committee meeting agendas?  How about Competition and Rules Committee agendas?  If we could see the business that is being done on our sport's behalf, that would give the competitors a chance to have their voices heard BEFORE a change is acted upon.

I think that would result in more competitor common ground and more productive changes going forward.

This is a good a spot as any to say NRA.ORG should have very obvious and direct links on their home page that lead easily to competitive shooting PROGRAMS.  And "Precision Bullseye Pistol" should be at the top.

As it is, you have to successfully "explore" through 5 or 6 clicks to find "Conventional Pistol"  (whatever that is to the uninformed person)

International Freepistol, AP, Standard, etc. ought to be another subgroup of "Precision" Pistol.



Add that "Action" Pistol is the other main category and is an accepted term for Bianchi and other "action" disciplines.

Jack H wrote:NRA.ORG should have very obvious and direct links on their home page that lead easily to competitive shooting PROGRAMS.  And "Precision Bullseye Pistol" should be at the top.

You are absolutely right Jack, and I truly believe that Denny is going to ensure this gets done correctly.  We were able to present him with our suggestions and shortcomings that we see in the NRA website in the past and we should continue to let him know about our thoughts on what should be included in the future NRA website.  The fact that he is logging in to this forum and commenting on posts is evidence that he intends to be responsive to us competitors.

I emailed Denny today for a status about the website fixes, and he says we are looking at 6-8 more months before the new site is online.  He says, and I agree with him, that it needs to come out of the blocks right the first time.  He wan'ts to make sure that the NRA website isn't an example of bad website rollouts.

" Cover Oregon " is the poster child for bad website rollouts. It would be hard for anyone to do a worse job then them. I think I may have just challenged "worse" so I will keep my fingers crossed.

Len

I always describe the sport to people as a precision game for pistols. As compared to other popular pistol matches around here, IDPA, USPSA, Steel Challenge, that's what it is.

The thread title doesn't represent this post's subject, but part of the thread is on this topic:

The NRA site used to have all the past National Matches results bulletins available, even though links were not apparent.  I have links on my site that no longer work because of the last NRA rework.  It would be nice if NRA could find those old files and reinstate them with a link table so we would not have to rely on an individual to provide these for us.

If filenames would help, I can provide them.

So I got to wonder... Does the NRA know that the name on the street is "Bullseye" or "Bullseye pistol" ? That is what everyone has been calling it for generations. So over the years the proper name has changed, and adapted, but really what do we, and others know it as? Bullseye.  Why would they not work to make that its official name if they are looking to change it?? It just makes sense to me. Maybe im off base, or missed a reason, but it seems so simple.

I had read here that the name change was approved, and I'm not on NRA's webpage much, but I was there today and saw "Precision Pistol" in writing.  Here is a screenshot...  They mention it may be known as "Conventional-Bullseye Pistol" at the beginning, but then they still used "conventional pistol" further down in the text...

Since the name change was approved, I have found that it might be easier to seek sponsorships with the new name.  The sales pitch is that "precision pistol" matches foster firearms safety through proficiency.  For some reason that seems to strike a chord for people, and they don't seem to ask "what is precision pistol?"

I'm not as concerned with the name change as I am bothered by the lack of attention to support for the shooting sports. The classifications are supposed to be based on the average of the best 360 consecutive shots fired but the computer program they use only looks back 360 shots from when someone pushes the button. This was the explaination given me by someone at the NRA when I called to see why 2 consecutive 2700 matches fired at expert level did not move me up to expert. I don't think they (clerks) understand the rules and the computer program certainly does not follow what is stated in the rules. They have no problem tracking me down with fundraising literature and advertisements for life insurance.

RustyJoints wrote:...This was the explaination given me by someone at the NRA when I called to see why 2 consecutive 2700 matches fired at expert level did not move me up to expert.....

Don't be to quick to blame the NRA on this, they may not of received the scores in a timely manner.  I shoot matches where I get a recap emailed to me within a 30 minutes of the match ending.  There are others that take weeks.   If you shot a Marksman score that made it to the NRA and was recorded between your 2 Expert scores you wouldn't be reclassified.  The scores are entered as they are received not by date of the match.  It would be a nightmare for the NRA of back and forth if they did it by date.  They do not control when the match info arrives.

- Dave

They have the two scores recorded sequentially but tell me the first one was used when I moved up to S/S so it does not count with the second. There is no mention in the rules about a score being used up it just says 360 consecutive shots above 90%.

From the NRA rulebook: "Only scores not previously used in computing a classification average will be used for reclassification"

Thanks, I wonder why they didn't just say that.