Bullseye-L Forum
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

More on DR ammo

+4
Jack H
james r chapman
LenV
Russ OR
8 posters

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

Go down

More on DR ammo Empty More on DR ammo

Post by Russ OR 12/11/2014, 12:19 am

Earlier today seeking clarification on legal DR ammo, I called the NRA and spoke to Damien Orsinger  http://pistol-competition.nra.org/distinguished-revolver-program.aspx . He said that DR ammo is "158 grain specific" and that would eventually be clarified. I asked if I could quote him on it. He said I could.

I think it is wise, and the most fair, to stay with the 158g bullets. -- When this is settled officially and for certain - if it is not 158g specific - I will either donate the 3 lbs of Bullseye powder to Portland Rifle and Pistol Club (PRPC) or donate $75 to PRPC - their choice.
The 3½ lbs is actually 3lbs and an ounce or two.   - - Russ

Russ OR

Posts : 269
Join date : 2011-06-10
Location : Oregon City, OR

Back to top Go down

More on DR ammo Empty Re: More on DR ammo

Post by LenV 12/13/2014, 10:27 am

Did you see the rule changes effective 2014? This is on the NRA site. It looks like they are trying to clean up 3.1.4. I wonder if they realize they didn't eliminate FMJ's ?

http://compete.nra.org/documents/pdf/compete/rules/rul_conv_pistol_14.pdf
Since there no manufactures actually making 158gr fmj bullets that is probably moot.
LenV
LenV

Posts : 4769
Join date : 2014-01-24
Age : 74
Location : Oregon

Back to top Go down

More on DR ammo Empty Re: More on DR ammo

Post by james r chapman 12/13/2014, 3:55 pm

E. Looks clear on 158 bullets
james r chapman
james r chapman
Admin

Posts : 6372
Join date : 2012-01-31
Age : 75
Location : HELL, Michigan

Back to top Go down

More on DR ammo Empty Re: More on DR ammo

Post by Jack H 12/13/2014, 5:28 pm

The last word I thought was this from about October:

"Neil,
The rule regarding the firearm simply says that the firearm must be CAPABLE of chambering and firing the 158gr round, not that the round must be used. Rule 3.17, regarding ammo, does NOT require use of the 158 gr round. When 3.17 was last changed, it was during a significant shortage of components and 130gr military ammo was prevalent so the committee decided to get out of the bullet weight business and allow ANY safe ammo. You can even use 148gr HBWC.
This can be brought before the committee for discussion if you like.
The information provided to Clark is correct.



Denny"
Dennis L. Willing
Jack H
Jack H

Posts : 2699
Join date : 2011-06-10
Age : 75
Location : Oregon

Back to top Go down

More on DR ammo Empty Re: More on DR ammo

Post by LenV 12/13/2014, 5:34 pm

I clicked on rule changes for conventional pistol and that is what popped up.
LenV
LenV

Posts : 4769
Join date : 2014-01-24
Age : 74
Location : Oregon

Back to top Go down

More on DR ammo Empty Re: More on DR ammo

Post by Rob Kovach 12/13/2014, 6:30 pm

Those "rule changes for 2014" were from a year ago--Jack's letter is much more recent.
Rob Kovach
Rob Kovach
Admin

Posts : 2692
Join date : 2011-06-14
Age : 51
Location : Brooklyn, WI

Back to top Go down

More on DR ammo Empty Re: More on DR ammo

Post by LenV 12/13/2014, 6:56 pm

I have looked several times and that is the first time "E" restricted the ammo to 158 gr. I think they just put it there. Of course I could be wrong. That has happened once or twice in my life. Rolling Eyes


You might lose that bet Rob.
LenV
LenV

Posts : 4769
Join date : 2014-01-24
Age : 74
Location : Oregon

Back to top Go down

More on DR ammo Empty Re: More on DR ammo

Post by james r chapman 12/13/2014, 7:33 pm

More on DR ammo 3064385617
james r chapman
james r chapman
Admin

Posts : 6372
Join date : 2012-01-31
Age : 75
Location : HELL, Michigan

Back to top Go down

More on DR ammo Empty Re: More on DR ammo

Post by Rob Kovach 12/13/2014, 7:46 pm

How do you figure?  The link that Old Master found is from December of 2013, and this quote is from October 2014:
the committee decided to get out of the bullet weight business and allow ANY safe ammo. You can even use 148gr HBWC.
Sounds pretty clear that the 158gr requirement isn't going to be the rule much longer.
Rob Kovach
Rob Kovach
Admin

Posts : 2692
Join date : 2011-06-14
Age : 51
Location : Brooklyn, WI

Back to top Go down

More on DR ammo Empty Re: More on DR ammo

Post by james r chapman 12/13/2014, 7:47 pm

we shall wait and see... if you shot today, what would the rule be?
james r chapman
james r chapman
Admin

Posts : 6372
Join date : 2012-01-31
Age : 75
Location : HELL, Michigan

Back to top Go down

More on DR ammo Empty Re: More on DR ammo

Post by javaduke 12/13/2014, 8:18 pm

Okay, I think there's a little bit of misunderstanding here. The rule 3.17 mentioned by Dennis Willing is about the Conventional 900 where any safe CF ammo is allowed. The rule 3.1.4 specifically covers the DR competition, and (e) clearly says 158gr - either RN or SWC.  Am I missing something here?
http://compete.nra.org/documents/pdf/compete/RuleBooks/Pistol/pistol-book.pdf

javaduke

Posts : 768
Join date : 2012-07-04

https://eb-custom.us

Back to top Go down

More on DR ammo Empty Re: More on DR ammo

Post by dronning 12/13/2014, 9:20 pm

deleted


Last edited by dronning on 12/13/2014, 9:35 pm; edited 2 times in total
dronning
dronning

Posts : 2581
Join date : 2013-03-20
Age : 71
Location : Lakeville, MN

Back to top Go down

More on DR ammo Empty Re: More on DR ammo

Post by javaduke 12/13/2014, 9:23 pm

dronning wrote:The rule has a huge hole in it because it says NOTHING about what ammo is required.  ONLY that the revolver must be capable of....



"The revolver must be capable of chambering and firing a 158-grain round nose or Semi-Wadcutter .38 Special cartridge."



That's what all the discussion is about no ammo is defined.  That's why everyone is looking for them to clear it up.



- Dave
But it does specify the ammo required, right here:
http://compete.nra.org/documents/pdf/compete/RuleBooks/Pistol/pistol-book.pdf Page 12, 
3.1.4 Distinguished Revolver 
(e) Ammunition - Any safe .38 caliber ammunition using the 158 grain round nose or Semi-Wadcutter bullet only. 


Seems pretty clear to me.

javaduke

Posts : 768
Join date : 2012-07-04

https://eb-custom.us

Back to top Go down

More on DR ammo Empty Re: More on DR ammo

Post by james r chapman 12/13/2014, 9:25 pm

What hole is that?

I read 3.1.4(e) to be very clear...
james r chapman
james r chapman
Admin

Posts : 6372
Join date : 2012-01-31
Age : 75
Location : HELL, Michigan

Back to top Go down

More on DR ammo Empty Re: More on DR ammo

Post by Jack H 12/13/2014, 9:50 pm

Earlier in the year, there was a hole in the posted rules.  Now they might have plugged it contradicting the Dennis Willing quote in the October email from NSK.

I saw no announcement for any changes.  Did you? 

If I was a referee or on a jury, the rules as posted today would win.
Jack H
Jack H

Posts : 2699
Join date : 2011-06-10
Age : 75
Location : Oregon

Back to top Go down

More on DR ammo Empty Re: More on DR ammo

Post by Rob Kovach 12/13/2014, 10:24 pm

The rules effective January 2014 require the 158gr round nose or Semi-wadcutter.

Isn't this discussion about what the rule will be changed to when "the clarification" is made?

The sub (e) in the 2014 rulebook matches the 2011 rulebook I have.  The "missing sections" of the DR rules were missing for the 2012 and 2013 rulebooks.

After re-reading the message Jack/Old Master has from Neil Kravitz, it really looks like the "any safe ammo" comment refers to 3.17 which has nothing to do with DR. 

I'm starting to think it looks like James R Chapman, Javaduke, and Russ OR are correct on this.

When we see the 2015 rulebook, I'll pay up.
Rob Kovach
Rob Kovach
Admin

Posts : 2692
Join date : 2011-06-14
Age : 51
Location : Brooklyn, WI

Back to top Go down

More on DR ammo Empty Re: More on DR ammo

Post by Jack H 12/13/2014, 10:37 pm

The exchanges in October were about DR.  Notice the Willing quote mentions "capable" which is part of DR for sure.
Jack H
Jack H

Posts : 2699
Join date : 2011-06-10
Age : 75
Location : Oregon

Back to top Go down

More on DR ammo Empty Re: More on DR ammo

Post by Rob Kovach 12/13/2014, 10:41 pm

Yeah, but....

After hammering on NRA for the last 3 years to get the rulebook fixed and it's only now fixed makes me think that a decision has been made since that email.  Who fixes a rulebook omission that reflects a rule that is obsolete?

I'm glad the rulebook is fixed.  I'm hoping that this matter is resolved for good when we see the 2015 rulebook.
Rob Kovach
Rob Kovach
Admin

Posts : 2692
Join date : 2011-06-14
Age : 51
Location : Brooklyn, WI

Back to top Go down

More on DR ammo Empty Re: More on DR ammo

Post by Rob Kovach 12/13/2014, 10:47 pm

Either way, you better bring a box of 158gr .38s to your next DR match until this is settled for good.
Rob Kovach
Rob Kovach
Admin

Posts : 2692
Join date : 2011-06-14
Age : 51
Location : Brooklyn, WI

Back to top Go down

More on DR ammo Empty Re: More on DR ammo

Post by james r chapman 12/13/2014, 11:16 pm

Yepper!
james r chapman
james r chapman
Admin

Posts : 6372
Join date : 2012-01-31
Age : 75
Location : HELL, Michigan

Back to top Go down

More on DR ammo Empty Re: More on DR ammo

Post by Guest 12/14/2014, 12:11 am

Why didn't the NRA revise the cover page to reflect the date they changed the 2014 rules to include the subsections to 3.14? As of August 24 2014 the subsections 3.14.a, 3.14.b, 3.14.c, 3.14.d, 3.14.e and 3.14.f were missing from the rulebook effective January 2014 and is the reason behind this whole discussion. There are two versions of the rules with the same effective date.

https://web.archive.org/web/20140816070253/http://compete.nra.org/documents/pdf/compete/RuleBooks/Pistol/pistol-book.pdf

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

More on DR ammo Empty Re: More on DR ammo

Post by dronning 12/14/2014, 12:56 am

Wile E Coyote wrote:Why didn't the NRA revise the cover page to reflect the date they changed the 2014 rules to include the subsections to 3.14? As of August 24 2014 the subsections 3.14.a, 3.14.b, 3.14.c, 3.14.d, 3.14.e and 3.14.f were missing from the rulebook effective January 2014 and is the reason behind this whole discussion. There are two versions of the rules with the same effective date.

https://web.archive.org/web/20140816070253/http://compete.nra.org/documents/pdf/compete/RuleBooks/Pistol/pistol-book.pdf


Working off my downloaded copy of the current release (without the subsections) I was getting a little frustrated with the discussion until I clicked on the link and read the added subsections.

If someone was shooting a JHP round and had a copy of the "current rules" without the additions I'd be hard pressed to DQ them.  Which copy prevails?

Not putting a newer publish date on the cover was just plain negligent.

- Dave
dronning
dronning

Posts : 2581
Join date : 2013-03-20
Age : 71
Location : Lakeville, MN

Back to top Go down

More on DR ammo Empty Re: More on DR ammo

Post by Rob Kovach 12/14/2014, 2:20 am

Every DR match held since the screwed up 2012 rulebook has been held with an "rules addendum" that was part of each match bulletin.  When the match director received their approval to hold a DR match they were required to attest that the would administer the rules that the 3.1.4 (a)-(f) describe.
SO what that all means is even though there is an omission in the rules, all competitors are made aware of the additional rules by the match bulleten "rules addendum".  Since no DR matches were permitted without them, all DR matches have been held under the same rules and conditions even though the rulebook was missing those sections.
Rob Kovach
Rob Kovach
Admin

Posts : 2692
Join date : 2011-06-14
Age : 51
Location : Brooklyn, WI

Back to top Go down

More on DR ammo Empty Re: More on DR ammo

Post by KenO 12/14/2014, 5:44 am

Its clear that the 2014 change says a 158gr must be used. But... I thought Denny's comment in Oct was for the up coming 2015 change. We are only a couple weeks from 2015.

It would be nice if Denny would post here what is really going on.

I will use 158s until its cleared up.

KenO

Posts : 182
Join date : 2011-06-14
Age : 77
Location : Northern Lower Michigan/Florida winter

Back to top Go down

More on DR ammo Empty Re: More on DR ammo

Post by james r chapman 12/14/2014, 1:46 pm

We need t-shirts made up, darn it!
james r chapman
james r chapman
Admin

Posts : 6372
Join date : 2012-01-31
Age : 75
Location : HELL, Michigan

Back to top Go down

More on DR ammo Empty Re: More on DR ammo

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum