Aimpoint which model

First topic message reminder :

Hi evertbody,  Question. which model aimpoint is used mostly on a 45 for bull's-eye shooting,

Well I assume you all do know military shooters, there are quite a few of them. I too know and am on first name basis with quite a few of them. However I'm sure most of the Perry shooters know who Adam Sokolowski is. 2 time NTI Winner and probably the youngest winner, 2650+ shooter with right and left hand. (I think it was the match in Tampa that he won right handed and returned the next year and won it left handed) I think he was 4th at Perry 3 or 4 times. Has a few NRA record including 2634 shot as a Junior!  He also was named the coach of the team both International and Bullseye and was named soldier of the month coaching the Army to a 1st, 2nd and 3rd place win at Perry and has been to many of the clubs in the USA running training seminars including the ones at Camp Perry.
 OK I hate to drop names, but I'm the guy that built his Pistols and taught him shooting skills. He was 10 years old when he shot his first match at Perry and because he broke his ankle during basic didn't get to the AMU until late April and was told he would not be on the Ball team but would go to Perry. Well not only did he shoot on the Ball team as the new shooter,(was on the "A" NRA team too) he was the high shooter on the team and also won the NTI that year, not bad for a new shooter that didn't have time to train! We talk for hours every week, I know quite a bit more than I'm willing to divulge here but I can assure you the Army will test everything they hear that's available for target shooting! Just about everyone sends them their stuff to test because they would love to get the AMU's approval! Who am I, most at Benning know me! I'm simply Adam's Dad!!
 When I hear of bad results I try to pass it along to my fellow shooters to help them avoid spending their hard earned money on something that may have a problem. Issues I  mention here I know them very well as if I were involved and indirectly I am! Lots of things I may be vague and just glaze over so as not to cause any problems for my son and to allow the reader to ignore my comments and make up his own mind.  And many issues I will not state here or any place else for the same reason! But I can assure you as I mentioned above that if it has to do with shooting competition the Army knows about it and has tested it! That also goes for rules changes too! They are first to hear about it and their input is requested. Adam has been selected as the contact person for all the military.  I think I said too much so it's time for me to shut up!!

Rob Kovach wrote:

Froneck wrote:No I don't pass rumors! I know what I'm talking about.
I was told that they had problems so I really don't know myself

Dear Froneck,

I can't let this stand.  I'm not going to let you badmouth a product when you don't have first hand knowledge of the situation.  So what, we all know military shooters.  Everybody knows that Marines tell sea stories, and the waves were 100 feet tall...
Military shooters exaggerate.

Look Froneck, we don't need you to go out of your way to tell us all the things you've heard from all the people you know.  Stick to telling us only things that you have experienced first hand.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa!

The Marines might not always tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, but they never lie -  leastwise in the case of Gunnery Sergeants.

Those 100 foot high waves were actually higher but they were said to be 100 feet to prevent the faint of heart from swooning when the story was related.

I wasn't in the Marine Corps, but I wore the uniform . . . and made it look good!  

(Navy Hospital Corpsman, Third Class Petty Officer, 1st Plt, E Co. 2/7, initially !STMARDIV, then 1STMARDIV(Reinf), then 3RDMARDIV all within 13 months in Vietnam)

Semper fi and Yo Ho Me Hearties, Yo Ho

robert.dipasqua.1 wrote:Hi evertbody,  Question. which model aimpoint is used mostly on a 45 for bull's-eye shooting,

Been shooting for a long time, I've seen just about every one of the various models used on the 45. As the competition (scope sales not shooting) altered their models so did Aimpoint maybe it was the other way around. However new versions came out and just about all that were for pistol with out magnification were used on the 45.
 If I recall one of the earlier models shot good but had battery issues. Seems the battery could not make the match and the scope needed to be turned off when changing and scoring the targets.

Froneck wrote:Well I assume you all do know military shooters, there are quite a few of them. I too know and am on first name basis with quite a few of them. However I'm sure most of the Perry shooters know who Adam Sokolowski is. 2 time NTI Winner and probably the youngest winner, 2650+ shooter with right and left hand. (I think it was the match in Tampa that he won right handed and returned the next year and won it left handed) I think he was 4th at Perry 3 or 4 times. Has a few NRA record including 2634 shot as a Junior!  He also was named the coach of the team both International and Bullseye and was named soldier of the month coaching the Army to a 1st, 2nd and 3rd place win at Perry and has been to many of the clubs in the USA running training seminars including the ones at Camp Perry.
 OK I hate to drop names, but I'm the guy that built his Pistols and taught him shooting skills. He was 10 years old when he shot his first match at Perry and because he broke his ankle during basic didn't get to the AMU until late April and was told he would not be on the Ball team but would go to Perry. Well not only did he shoot on the Ball team as the new shooter,(was on the "A" NRA team too) he was the high shooter on the team and also won the NTI that year, not bad for a new shooter that didn't have time to train! We talk for hours every week, I know quite a bit more than I'm willing to divulge here but I can assure you the Army will test everything they hear that's available for target shooting! Just about everyone sends them their stuff to test because they would love to get the AMU's approval! Who am I, most at Benning know me! I'm simply Adam's Dad!!
 When I hear of bad results I try to pass it along to my fellow shooters to help them avoid spending their hard earned money on something that may have a problem. Issues I  mention here I know them very well as if I were involved and indirectly I am! Lots of things I may be vague and just glaze over so as not to cause any problems for my son and to allow the reader to ignore my comments and make up his own mind.  And many issues I will not state here or any place else for the same reason! But I can assure you as I mentioned above that if it has to do with shooting competition the Army knows about it and has tested it! That also goes for rules changes too! They are first to hear about it and their input is requested. Adam has been selected as the contact person for all the military.  I think I said too much so it's time for me to shut up!!

Well, one of my pet peeves of the internet forums, is the use of monikers.. If your real name, and position, were known, your credibility, and statements would have been somewhat better established. I am sorry to hear the AMU has had issues with the H-1s.. I consider it the finest optic presently available, based on numerous units installed and in use. It's expensive, and needs the add ons mentioned to be completely competitive. If it shows issues, I'll be the first to complain.. I don't agree with much of what you claim, and we will probably be trading posts in the near future... but your son is to be commended.

Well again it maybe the way it was used, but it's replacement was another Aimpoint product. That has to say something! When called they said the scopes could not be repaired but the would be replaced. I guess AMU opted to get a different scope. They like it so far. To get Adam to approve something is not easy and he loved the new scopes! He's shooting again, He shot a sectional at Benning with the new Aimpoint and tied a Rapid Fire record 200-16X. At one time I was teaching him how to shoot, now he's teaching me! No Problem Jerry most think I have a few screws lose, the others are positive!
 Oh Well now everyone will know where to find me at Perry, with Adam at the AMU trailer. BTW Adam has been going to Perry with me since he was 3 years old  and has been there every year since.

Maybe I should add one more bit of information. I may be talking above what most will consider very good. An item that is examined with a larger power microscope than most will use. I think it only fair to say that the Aimpoint H-1 was on all the pistols used by the AMU at Perry last year and was on all the Pistols used by the 1st, 2nd and 3rd place winner. That should say something as to the quality of the scope! It will probably be added to the advertizement of Aimpoint products. Simply put small minor issues that may be smaller than all the other scopes available have was not good enough for those at the top 1% level so this year it was changed to another Aimpoint product!

^^That post is helpful ^^

Welcome Mr. Sokolowski. , love your trigger shoes of which I have bought several, and really like your son, great guy always willing to help us les talented shooters, shot with him a few times. last spring at the sectional at benning was the last time hope he is doing well. Glad to have on the forum!

Hi Dave: Thank you! Yes Adam is doing good and shooting again. He managed to get some of the coaching pressure removed so now he can shoot
 Which shoes did you get? Blued Steel or Aluminum Bronze?? Aluminum Bronze are Great!!!
 Unfortunately they stopped letting civilians shot in the All Army match, he don't have the time to change it this year because of other things he's doing. I liked going down and shooting with him. He's thinking next year he can get it changed back to allow civilians. I hope so, I want to shoot it again.

I hope they change the rules again, I always wanted to shoot a 2700 there but they stopped them a few years back, I bought the steel offset ones but I do like the others a friend has some of them. We welcome your knowledge and experience.

They were stopped for a stupid reason!! They were concerned the Army shooters were winning everything and the Civilian money was going to the Army shooters. After the match they had a swanky Dinner at a Posh place, all shooters were invited. That dinner cost more than the entry, no civilian cared about the entry fee plus you could pick-up a life time supply of once fired brass!
 Message me your address, I'll send you a Bronze Shoe to try out! If you like it keep it if not give it to someone else to try!

I have shade extensions on my Aimpoint Micro.  It makes a world of difference over with no shades.  KC did the job. 
Thanks KC

I used the Aimpoint 9000SC's on my .45's (2 guns) for several yrs. You are all correct about the weight. I also have a Comp which is a very good sight but not as easily mounted (positioned) in my opinion. The weight was not a factor until the past 3 yrs or so.

I have owned and used most all of the Aimpoint models until the Micro series and if I had the money they would be on my guns today. By the way, Jerry those are nice! mounts! Are the bright/blk aluminum w/ the black being plastic?

Ron Habegger

PS: For you guys interested Aimpoint had an NRA Instructor discount prog that really helped me out w/ the 900o's.

I should also say I have, and have had, several UD's on BE guns and they are good sights too.

Ron Habegger

The Aimpoint Comp worked really great with the frame mount that Springfield Armory used to sell. Sadly, it is no longer in production.  It was really great, didn't need extra rings (built in) and mounted the scope lower than about anything else (until Keefer came along anyway).

Just let me know if you want to trade the Comp for an UltraDot and lesser weight!  ;-D

Colt711 wrote: By the way, Jerry those are nice! mounts! Are the bright/blk aluminum w/ the black being plastic?
Ron Habegger

Hello Ron
Thank you
The bright shiny black extensions on the Hammerlis are anodized and made by Fred Totts. That customer already had them installed when I received the guns for the low mount job.
The Pardini black extensions are old Ultra Dot tubes..Had an abundance of those at one time.. They are all gone now, so I make the longer extension from 6061 Aluminum tubing. I keep the press on adapter on the short side, and allow the shooter the option for the extension length or filters.

Looking to buy a Aimpoint H1  not sure if I should get a 2moa or 4moa.  I have no experience with shooting a dot and know of no one in my area so i could try.

Anyone got some recommendations?

Since you've never shot a dot before, my recommendation would be to get one of the Ultradot models at about 1/3 the cost of the Aimpoint.  Aimpoints are great products and priced accordingly.  An awful lot of us have used Ultadots successfully for many years.  Similar to the question of whether you really want to invest in a BMW if you've not driven a car before.....

figured i could always trade for the opposite aimpoint of what i got if i needed to.  But i will look at the ultras as well.

Christopher Miceli wrote:Looking to buy a Aimpoint H1  not sure if I should get a 2moa or 4moa.  I have no experience with shooting a dot and know of no one in my area so i could try.

Anyone got some recommendations?

I bought the 2 MOA unit. I wasn't sure either which one to buy, but I am glad I went that route. When I want the dot a little bigger, I turn up the brightness and it appears to be a larger dot. 

HTH,

Joel

Chris,
I'm going to sound a little like I'm opposed to the Aimpoint H1, but I'm not.  Since you expressed that you have no experience with dot sights let me mention a couple of other factors regarding the H1.  First it has no extension tubes, which means the front and rear optical elements are right out in the open.  That can present glare at some sun angles, as well as increased exposure to raindrops, muzzle gas "fog", oil, etc.  It also means there is nowhere to mount a polarizing filter, which some folks find very useful on extremely bright days.  The slick looking H1's with tubes you see in some of the pictures on this forum are custom tube jobs ($$).  Second, most of the really slick looking H1 mounts you find in pictures on the forum are full custom mounts.  That is the optimum way to get it mounted really low, but they are also expensive, as is all true custom work.  It is entirely possible to come up with an H1 with tubes and a custom low mount that looks and works fantastic, but cost about half what a new wadgun would cost.  There is nothing wrong with that if you know it going in.

Again, please don't cast me as anti-Aimpoint here.  I'm not.  I almost bought an H1 last year.  But in considering the shortcomings and what they mean for me, I went another way....

Froneck wrote:Well I can say the Army AMU removed the Aimpoint Micros because of problems. However they went to the Higher Dollar full size New Aimpoint with 2 minute dot

I always like to hear what the big dogs are doing, be it shooting techniques or equipment. Inside information often isn't forthcoming directly from the AMU, so passing along information like you have done is enlightening, especially considering the military are always leading the pack in R&D. Thanks.

Thanks BE Mike I'll pass along information as I get it. Some I will not due to sensitivity. As you know the AMU has deeeep pockets and buys just about anything that comes out plus a few items sent to them to be tried out. Often these items don't make the grade.  For example I was looking at the High Standard 1911 style 45 at Perry and naturally told it was a great gun and that the AMU is looking to use them. So I checked, yes the AMU is looking to build new guns to replace those that have been shooting quite a bit and that there is just little that can be done after being reworked as many times as they have. They did look at the HS 45 but will not buy them! (tested and rejected) Understand they were not looking for an out of the box tack driver but something of quality that can be made into a tack driver.
 The scope being used is the 9000SC. When first purchased they were ordered with the rings (from I think Midway could be wrong) Later when ordering it was found that if the 9000SC was ordered with the rings it was expensive yet if the 9000SC was ordered without the rings then order the same rings that it came with separately it was cheaper in total to the Micro. The AMU then added extension tubes to increase the length past the muzzel. I was told the reason for the extension was to keep the rain off the front lens. It seems that water on the slide will splash onto the lens during recoil and closing of the slide. I had a Micro on my AW93 and all I could see was black specks between the drops on my lens while shooting in the rain.
 Also Henderson as well as all the other AMU shooter are using Slide mount. Henderson didn't shoot this year because he was shooting International but he came to Perry on 45 day. After the match he was talking to one of the up coming AMU shooters that was on the "B" team that thought he wanted to try Frame mount. Henderson said it's good if you don't mind the sharp recoil and using the rubber 45 the Shooting Glasses guy has next to the AMU trailer  demonstrated the results. The frame mount was portrayed as shooting a S&W 50 with the gun lifting and waving all over. The slide mount looked like a .22 as Henderson lipped Kerr Chunk. That was kinda uprising from Henderson because the 1911 he shoots is weighted, the grips are lead and extend into the frame just about touching the Magazine in addition to other weight.
 AMU was thinking of replacing the 208S but now Larry's Guns has parts being made for the 208S the AMU opted to rebuild them.
 Can't think of anything else from my Perry trip that the AMU is doing.