Installed a New hinged trigger design for the 1911

First topic message reminder :

I just finished putting together this new Wad Gun for myself. Its a Caspian frame, STI slide and Kart barrel. Im not a professional gunsmith, just a hobby for me, but Im pleased with the results. Had an unexpected day off today, so took it to the range, Just got home from Ransom Rest testing at 50 yards, and the gun is holding 10 shot groups under 1.75".

 The big difference, as you can see from the pictures, is the trigger. I learned about this trigger from a post on another gun forum. Its an X-Line trigger.

Here is a link...http://www.xline-geppert.de/x-line%20trigger.htm

 I contacted the manufacturer in Germany. He is a Bianchi Cup Shooter,  and was very pleasant and helpful in Emails, So I placed an order. If you are familiar with the operation of the fire control group of a 1911, the pics on the X-Line site will answer a lot of questions. Its adjustable in almost every way (so much so, you can go a little crazy playing with all the adjustments). The spring loaded plunger behind the lower part of the trigger can be moved in and out for a long smooth single stage roll, or set up like a two stage feeling trigger, which is how I have it set up. I have a sear cut on a True Radius jig, with a Wilson hammer that has long-ish hooks. The body of the trigger doesn't move, it is secured in the frame with a set screw through the trigger guard.

 There is basically no take up, as you begin to pull the trigger, you start rolling the sear off the hammer hooks (movement is amplified by the hinged design). Just before the sear releases the hammer, the trigger hits the adjustable plunger. It has an internal spring that you can vary the weight of. Continued pressure will release the hammer with very little further movement. Initial pull of mine is 2 pounds for the first "stage", and 1.5 more for the second.

 With a properly polished and mated sear and hammer, the pull is very consistent. Because of the leverage gained by the hinged trigger, the sear spring is set up for a trigger pull more like 4.5-5 lbs. Results in a pull just a hair over 3.5

 I thought it was a pretty neat idea, and well executed, So I figured Id share it with you guys. Gives the old 1911 a "euro-gun" feel.  Ive only used the frame for a 22 match at this point, so the jury is still out, but so far so good.

 Its not a cure for poor trigger control, its just something different to try. If you like the feel of a two stage trigger in your .22, you might just like it in your .45.
 What I like about it, is it gives you a chance to experiment with different types of trigger pulls with just a few adjustments! cool.  If anyone has any questions, Ill do my best to answer them. Here are a few pictures...

It's really up to you. I always like good solid reset, so I put plenty of weight on the center disconnector spring.  The trigger was designed for Bianchi cup, so I would think it would be good for steel.
Remember, this trigger( like any part) only gives you  what the installer chooses to get out of it.  If that makes sense.  The extra leverage allows you to set the sear spring heavier than you normally could for the same trigger pull. If you are not careful, you could wind up with an EXTREMELY light  trigger.

Looks like there is only 1 left in stock. This link might work better.

http://shop.xline-geppert.de/en/x-line-trigger/8-x-line-trigger.html

I have and tried the Guncrafter a long time ago. I didn't like the feel because I felt the pivot point is too far back; which makes the face drop away as I pressed it (JMO).
This one looks like a copy.

Wes Lorenz wrote:I have and tried the Guncrafter a long time ago. I didn't like the feel because I felt the pivot point is too far back; which makes the face drop away as I pressed it (JMO).
This one looks like a copy.

can you show pictures of the older trigger and its component's for a comparison?

DavidR wrote:

Wes Lorenz wrote:I have and tried the Guncrafter a long time ago. I didn't like the feel because I felt the pivot point is too far back; which makes the face drop away as I pressed it (JMO).
This one looks like a copy.

can you show pictures of the older trigger and its component's for a comparison?

Will do, just have to dig it out.

I never knew the difference between a single and double stage trigger until I shot a friend's Pardini SP. You simply have to shoot one for awhile to appreciate the trigger's qualities. I believe the popularity of the Euroguns begins with their triggers. I have an early series model 41 with a well worn trigger that is very crisp; I thought it impossible to beat (with a firearm in the same 'class') until I shot the Pardini. Shooting the Pardini caused incessant gun lust which can only be sated by owning one.


The X-line trigger may upgrade 1911 triggers to those found on the Pardini GT. IMHO, that would be sher gut. Love the build as well. dipnet

Wes Lorenz wrote:

DavidR wrote:

Wes Lorenz wrote:I have and tried the Guncrafter a long time ago. I didn't like the feel because I felt the pivot point is too far back; which makes the face drop away as I pressed it (JMO).
This one looks like a copy.

can you show pictures of the older trigger and its component's for a comparison?

Will do, just have to dig it out.

Finally found it. Not as nice, but Guncrafter invented it. The trigger bow is cast steel and the frame needed a set screw to hold the block in place.

that does look a lot like it.

markj, Now that it's been a few months, how does it shoot? Do you feel it's an improvement on the traditional design?

Really depends on how you look at it if you call it an improvement or just "different ".  I had hoped to see some improvements in my slow fire scores, but really, all my scores just stagnated this season. I don't blame the trigger, I took it off and went back to a traditional trigger and nothing improved. Only in the last few matches have I started to see some progress. It's been a pretty frustrating season!! I really like the feel of the trigger, I didn't find it difficult to adapt too and could see that if I keep all my fundamentals squared away, it would be an asset. I've got a frame and a few parts I'm going to build into a dedicated .22 lower over the winter and this trigger will be used in that build. I'll update this thread when I have more info.

markj, Just saw a gun on Facebook with this trigger which renewed my interest. Any update?

Nice job building that gun!! However I might add that the rules do state that a straight trigger is to be measured 1/4" from the end. Some that check trigger weights will always use the center however there are a few that know the rules will measure it at the proper location. Pivoting trigger on the 1911 is not new, I've seen various versions, some require quite a bit of work in that the trigger has the pivot cut into the frame, another version pivoted from the bottom.
 Nothing is gained,Trigger pull weight is trigger pull weight and if measured 1/4" from the bottom and your finger contacts the trigger at a higher area then you will require more than "legal" pull. The advantage created by a pivot is proportional to the distances from the pivot but also remember that the advantage in applied pressure is the opposite of the distance traveled.
 For example lets just assume for ease of calculation that the distance to 1/4" from the end of the trigger is twice the distance from the pivot to the rod (that contacts the bow) connection therefore a 2 to 1 advantage. That means the trigger springs and sear weight must be adjusted to 7 pounds to attain 3.5 pounds at the "legal" trigger location. But now the trigger must travel twice the distance required by the bow to release the hammer.
 Judging by the small distance needed to travel you might experience the hammer falling when the slide is closed and or doubling.

How long is the trigger reach?  One of the nice things about the Euro guns is that most often you can adjust for this.

Thanks,
 Jim

I think the biggest gain from this design isn't the pivoting trigger, it's the fact that it creates an adjustable two-stage trigger.

If you like the two stage trigger then it will help but be mind full that your putting that set-up on a trigger that hasn't been designed to be 2 stage. Most of the European guns have a trigger system designed to be adjustable. Many have double sears though the Hammerli 208S does not.
 Read Trigger Reset in Tony's Bullseye Blog. You might create the situation he had with his other gun.
 Also you knowingly have an illegal trigger weight, training with that will not help you. However if you start winning what ever class your assigned someone will notice that trigger and you will be checked. Set the weight as per the rules or cut a radius in the trigger.
 Not trying to rain on your parade just want to help you to foresee future problems.

Ive been away from the forum for a while and just saw this thread alive again. I like the trigger, Its biggest advantage is it can "feel" like a two stage trigger. Personally I found it difficult to make the pull heavy enough. As stated, it needs to be measured 1/4" from the bottom. Even when made legal weight, in my opinion, it feels much lighter. 
 Last year my scores just hit a brick wall at 800-810, and I decided to really try and focus on some basic fundamentals so I removed the trigger so all guns would have the same feel. 

 I milled the trigger shoe to a more curved and smooth shape, feels much better, and will probably put it in my 22 conversion frame later this year, but want to get a few matches under my belt first. If I was smart, Id just not mess with anything and shoot, but we all get different things from this game, and I really enjoy experimenting, sometimes even at the expense of my scores, again, thats just me.

Mark..Does the x-line trigger still work?  I know your post was from 2015.  Looking for a good trigger fix for my 1911 Kimber to get to 3.5#.  Love 2 stage. Thanks

Seems like two possible easy answers to the whole "measure 1/4" from the bottom of a flat trigger" thing are:

1.  cut a slight radius into the trigger blade; or

2.  cut the bottom of the trigger blade off until it's just below where your finger touches, or where the rear of the trigger contacts the little spring-loaded plunger extending forward to contact the trigger blade.

Either of these should be pretty easy.

Resurrecting this thread to ask the OP about his latest status. I'm quite tempted to order one, and get all my guns two-staged, but the German website shows them as not being available. 
Anybody knows how to get one?
Thanks.

Received an E-mail from Geppert in Germany, "Out of stock".

Mark has been away from shooting this year due to building a new house. I don't believe he has been using the trigger. I'll let him know about the question

jglenn21 wrote:Mark has been away from shooting this year due to building a new house. I don't believe he has been using the trigger. I'll let him know about the question

Many thanks. 
BTW just in case he wants to sell it, I am his buyer.
The McMaster parts are in the Chiappa and it works great.

I have one for sale.  $150.00 shipped.  Send me an email kc@kcskustom.com

kc.crawford.7 wrote:I have one for sale.  $150.00 shipped.  Send me an email kc@kcskustom.com

E-mail sent.

Trigger is sold pending receipt of funds.

Thanks