9mm Titegroup Montana Gold Surprise

I've been using 4.1 grains and a 1.120 COL with MG 115 JHP with fair success getting sub- inch groups on good days at 25 yds.  Earlier this week I thought I'd try a new twist to get more velocity but not unduly increase pressure.   I threw 4.5 grains and seated to 1.150 COL.  I shot the first group getting 4 shots inside 5/8" c-to-c and one flyer at 25 yds.  I shot the 50 yd. group immediately after and got all 5 inside 1 7/8".   I have varied the charge and COL's while trying to develop an accurate load in the past with RN's but my results were always mixed.  I have also tried Alliant BE-86 and Everglades 115 JHP's with mixed results.    

I'm going to repeat the 4.5/1.150 loads 3 times to ensure my results weren't just due to chance.  If repeatable I'll go back to retest some former development cells because I've just begun to use the MG's.  It's a dirty job but someone's got to do it.  Just an aside: the Evglds varied from 113.9 to 115.7 grains and the MG's were 114.8 to 115.1 for a 20 piece random sample.

9mm likes to go fast, not sure if Tite Group is a good 9MM Powder b/c of the pressure. 

I am not saying it isn't just saying some powders like WST are  great for low pressure 45/38 and are not great for 9mm. WST sucks for 9mm and over 4.3 gn you get pressure signs. 

I think the IPSC guys use w231 and VV340. 

I think people also use power pistol to make 9mm go fast.

Thanks Rich.  I'm sort of stuck with Titegroup as that's all that was available last winter.  My BE-86 should give me around 1230fps at the max load of 6.3 according to Alliant data. I don't like using max loads and try to compensate by shallower seating.  Once I retest my Titegroup I'll probably migrate to repeat my past BE-86 cells with the MG's.  One reason I bought the BE-86 is to increase the velocity.   The popular bullseye powders just don't seem to be available around these parts.  I'm only a 2500 round per year shooter and only load 9mm so buying online is prohibitive due to Hazmat charges.

Maybe I shouldn't ask in this thread but does anyone know the science behind "faster is better" for 9mm and why a slower twist is better?   They seem to be a contradiction.   Just wondering.

Must be the twist on standard barrels? KKM barrels may be different. 

Might have something to do with the shape of the bullet and how it seats. 

All I know is out of an STI Trojan my 124gn FMJ 3.8 Bullseye bullets were a pleasure to shoot and hell to score. And 4.2 gn did not feel any lighter than a 45acp but grouped well. 

1150 FPS seems to be the inflection point. 


I have been told that 38 super with 3.8 to 4.0 bullseye over a 116 gn bullet shoots great? 

RT

I've had very good results from Titegroup using 4.1-4.2 grains.

Did you leg out with the 9 or the 45, Dewey?

Jerry Keefer wrote:I don't work on 9s any longer but, I managed to dig up some test targets from about 11 years ago.. These were all fired with 6.1 of Power Pistol

Jerry posted this on the Atlanta Arms thread...
I think it's noteworthy...

James and Jerry, those are some great shots!  I'll take a look at the PP data and find the velocity which I will try to match with BE-86 after I complete my latest experiment with Titegroup:  F.C. range brass vs CCI once-fired;  4.1 TG 1.120 COL vs 4.5 TG 1.150 COL; 10 rounds each for a total of 40.   Once my test is complete I'll choose the best group and test that recipe against the BE-86 equivalent to 6.1 PP.   I'm assuming my Montana Gold 115 JHP ballistics are not much different than the XTP's.  Thanks for the comments

jmdavis wrote:Did you leg out with the 9 or the 45, Dewey?

I got 28 points with the Beretta, but I got my hard leg and finished with the 1911.