Powder coated bullets

I posted this on the list side, so those of you that subscribe to both get it twice.

Has anyone done any accuracy testing with the powder coating technology?  Nothing wrong with lead, but inquiring minds you know.

The only ones I see posting about it are the action types that really don't seem to care if their pistol is grouping 2" or less at 50 yards.  For their purposes, they're just fine with 3-4'' at 7 yards.  Not acceptable in our circles.

Al

This question has been asked several times in different threads, typically where the coated bullets are being discussed.  So far I haven't seen anyone own up to a serious, i.e. machine rest, test of these coated bullets.

what little testing I've done with the Hi-Tek coating did not give encouraging results.. They seem to be ok for the short line but fall far short on the long line

I had a conversion with Bob Palermo of Penn Bullets today when I noticed they were beginning to offer a coated bullet.. I asked him about the accuracy of them and his response was encouraging.. He has offered to send me some of his 180 and 200 grain coated bullets to test,  so I will post the results from my Ransom..Believe he is also sending some to Jerry Keefer to test..  If they stay as accurate as his normal Match or Target grade bullets we should have something..

He is not using the Hi-tek coating nor a powder coating..

having loaded quite a few of the Hi-Teks I think the real advantage would be less mess in our seating dies and cases..

I switched to the hi-tek coated lead and in my less than scientific testing find them to be as accurate as the regular lead I was using. Having said that, I am going to take a hard look at either a different powder load or even a different bullet for the long line for next summer. I was not happy with my overall slow fire results but I don't know that it has anything to do with the coating. I do like the fact I don't have to clean the wax out of my dies anymore and my hands are much cleaner when I am done with a loading session. As long as I am shooting lead rounds, I expect I will stay with the Hi-tek coated.

I have tried them and accuracy was the same as lead for me. I did however find that they do leave some funky fouling in the barrels of my guns that I never got with uncoated bullets and they have a strange smell like burning paint when shot. They do however leave the gun much cleaner than regular lead and lube bullets, especially when shooting a revolver. But back to the barrel fouling, it was tough to scrub out in the 3 guns I tried coated bullets in. I'm sticking with the lead and lube.


Virgil

yeah the smell is like burnt plastic to me.. Different.

may have to look at something different to clean the bores..



I have seen folks claim that the smell comes from improperly cured coating on the Hi-Teks ?

I'll look forward to some good ransom testing from our circle. 

So far it seems like it's a fairly complex solution to wax buildup in the seating die.  Not enough to sell me on the system.  It's not that big a deal to drop the seater plug on a Dillon die and clean it.

Lead has worked well for me so far, I'm not sure it needs to be fixed.  Match a good bullet to the bore diameter, load for accuracy, clean when needed. 

But hey, I'm open to new ideas as long as they have a real world benefit.
Al

Are the Hi-Tek bullets the ones that were being sold on vendor's row at Perry this year?  I forget the vendor but recall the coating was red and the rep said it was not a powder coating, but some other polymer type coating.  I did try some 200 gr. moly coated .45 SWC's a few years back and didn't find them to be especially accurate.  Surprised to hear Bob Palermo is selling coated bullets.  I've used Bob's 200 gr LSWC for years and found them to be very accurate (1.5 inch at 50 yds) in my wad gun.

I will be doing ranson rest testing of some of Bob's bullets over the next few weeks and will post the results here.

The coated bullets I tried were from Missouri Bullet Co. Not sure what they use to coat the bullets.

Bob Palermo has provided some interesting information and history on coated bullets at the link below.  I have been a long time user of Penn Bullets and Bob's advice on bullet weights, design and loading have helped me achieve 1.5 inch groups at 50 yards with my wad gun.  I recommend everyone thinking about using coated bullets to first read Bob's info.

http://www.pennbullets.com/pennbulletin.html

Missouri bullets are Hi-Tek

Anyone know what is on the Precision Delta match lubed bullets?
There is no lube groove, nothing comes off on my fingers after handling. They shoot great, and leave the barrel clean in the Model 52. The bullet in question is their 38 cal  148gr HBWC.

its a  lube they are tumbled in like the old star bullets they are a copy of.

if you are looking for something similar try White Labels 45-45-10 lube

it's a thinned version of Alox

http://lsstuff.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=31&zenid=6bb7f3597a3d21f572ab9f5d3ebd6d7a

much thinner than Lee's lube and  to me it dries harder.

I'm shooting polyester based powder paint coated bullets exclusively that I am casting and coating myself. What I have learned is, regardless of the powder, the velocity is at least 50 FPS higher with the PC bullets as compared to the same load with waxed lead. My bores are mirror clean with no leading, streaking or paint deposits. The bores are easily cleaned with a dampened patch of Ed's Red, Ballistol or Eezox followed by 2 dry patches.

We are shooting indoors now and there is NO smoke from the PC bullets which is a pleasant change. Yes, some complain about the smell but since I can't smell it doesn't bother me

I've recovered some slugs this summer, out of dirt banks, and you can see rifling grooves in the bullets but the rifling has NOT cut through the paint nor is any bare lead exposed. This PC paint is some pretty amazing stuff. 

BTW, I thought I had read that the person who won at Perry this year was shooting PC Acme bullets?

Here are a few 175 grain, .40 S&W bullets that I recently baked in my $15 thrift store toaster oven. 400*F for 30 minutes and your done. Its quite easy with minimal investment.

Does this come in an aerosol or do you need spray gun to apply? What's the thickness? (microns?)
Jon

Powdered coated bullets can be tumbled.. It seems the PC bullets are becoming the go to for many cast bullet users

this is the site for cast bullets and the different coatings

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?184-Coatings-and-Alternatives


I believe Acme uses the Hi-Tek coatings  or used to ?


tons of info there.

Jon

some folks spray the PC with the cheap HF sprayer and some are tumbling.

Jon Eulette wrote: What's the thickness? (microns?)
Jon

Spraying adds about .002 to the diameter. The bullets can then be sized back to the original diameter with very little effort. I have not done much testing with pistol rounds yet for accuracy but I find no difference with cast rifle bullets.

Jon Eulette wrote:Does this come in an aerosol or do you need spray gun to apply? What's the thickness? (microns?)
Jon

Jon,
I buy the powder paint in bulk from a guy on the Cast Boolit Forum. Its about $17.00 per pound delivered. A teaspoon of powder will coat as many bullets as you can hold in 2 hands. I use the dry tumble method. Put two hand fulls of bullets in an empty Cool Whip container. Add 1 teaspoon of powder and about 100 black air soft BBs. Put the lid on and shake vigorously for 20-30 seconds. Pick the bullets out one by one using curved end hemostats and place nose up on NON-STICK aluminum foil. Put in a pre-heated at 400*F oven for 30 minutes and your done.

Some guys are using a Harbor Freight PC gun to spray them. However you can't spray the bottom of the bullets easily and the coating is slightly thicker than the dry tumble method described above. The DT method will add about .001" - .0015" total thickness. Its easy to size after PC is applied with no harm to the bullet or coating. I've abandoned the wax lube method in favor of PC. 

You can take a coated bullet and smash it flat as a penny using a hammer and the paint will not crack, chip or delaminate. Its pretty amazing stuff. You can also use Harbor Freight [red] powder paint (@ ~$7.00/lb) but it doesn't coat as uniformly as the paint the other guy is selling.

I'm still waiting for some guy with a Ransom Rest to do some actual testing: same gun, same bullets, with and without powder coating.  So far everything I've read is anecdotal.

But, Dr. Don, I heard someone heard someone said they heard someone won at Perry shooting' pc bullets...

I've tried the Hi-Tek coated bullets and the odor was a turn off to me.  Unless there's some gain in accuracy I'll stick with the standard lubes.

Dr.Don wrote:I'm still waiting for some guy with a Ransom Rest to do some actual testing: same gun, same bullets, with and without powder coating.  So far everything I've read is anecdotal.

I'm with you Dr. Don. These seem to be all the rage for folks who are impressed with accuracy at 7 yards. I have yet to see any 50 yard machine rest tests and I'll be sitting on the fence until I do.

Hi group, I've been playing with powder coated bullet for the past year or so. Initially was for the 9mm and 40 sw blasting guns. I was impressed with the performance so I decided to try them in the 45 bullseye guns. I initially cast several hundred lyman 452630s 200 gr bbswc. Half were sent through the star with white label BAC lube. The other half were powder coated using the shake and bake method using polyester powder coat. Coated bullets were sized using the same lube sizer as the traditional lubed bullets. These bullets were loaded with 3.3gr vectan ba10 over winchester lp primers in federal brass and test fired by hand for function and cleanliness. Five 10 shot groups for coated and lubed bullets were then fired from a ransom rest indoors at 50 FEET. (Sorry, not going to sit outside in january in North dakota).
Platform was a rock river longslide topped with a slide mount match dot.

For all ten shot groups, there was no stastically significant difference when the averages of the two groups were compaired. Additionally, when the average of all ten groups were combined, the average didnt change and there was a slightly lower standard deviation, probably due to the larger sample size. I can't remember the numbers off hand, but group size was in the .700" range ctc. Which relates (mathmatically) to about a 2" 50 yard group.

What's most interesting for me is the significantly lower amount of fouling in the gun after shooting coated vs traditional cast and lubed. I've since changed to a NOE 200 gr swc bullet. I'll be repeating the test with the new bullet some time this spring, but based on training sessions (again at 50 feet) I'm expecting good things.

One thing I've noticed is that seating depth DOES change with coating thickness so variability in your coating process will result in some deviation here. Supprisingly, in a separate, smaller test, accuracy didn't seem to be affected by a few thousandths variation. Something else I'll be looking into at some point.