New S&W Victory .22LR

First topic message reminder :

S&W's new .22LR target pistol - http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Category4_750001_750051_804153_-1_757752_757751_image

The website doesn't show the match grade barrels already available for it.  Looks like it might be a good entry level pistol for BE.

I see quite a bit of talk about entry level pistols for competition, that's a very big mistake! I know those top end guns are expensive but those plinkers are not worth getting for target use! The idea is to learn how to shoot as may holes in the center of the target, getting a gun that will not do it will lead to frustration and you will soon quit. Learning to shoot is a series of Ah Ha's!!! When ever you do what is required to make a perfect shot and you scope the target and see a hole in the X ring you will say Ah Ha that's how it's done. But if you do as previously mentioned yet the gun sends the bullet in the 9 ring or worse you will be scratching you head wondering what you did wrong! Or have a trigger pull that's like dragging an anchor on a rocky lake bottom and trying to learn trigger control.
 When my son Adam started shooting I put the best in his hand, he was 10 years old when he first shot at Perry. Look at the Junior records, most would love to be able to shoot the scores he has, they are listed along with the other records. Keep in mind those are Junior scores!
 If after a while you do decide to give up, a good gun is easy to sell and you probably will get at least your money back. Yet if you do enjoy competition it will not be necessary to get another gun. I wouldn't waste my time and money on that junk!

Froneck wrote:I see quite a bit of talk about entry level pistols for competition, that's a very big mistake! I know those top end guns are expensive but those plinkers are not worth getting for target use! The idea is to learn how to shoot as may holes in the center of the target, getting a gun that will not do it will lead to frustration and you will soon quit. Learning to shoot is a series of Ah Ha's!!! When ever you do what is required to make a perfect shot and you scope the target and see a hole in the X ring you will say Ah Ha that's how it's done. But if you do as previously mentioned yet the gun sends the bullet in the 9 ring or worse you will be scratching you head wondering what you did wrong! Or have a trigger pull that's like dragging an anchor on a rocky lake bottom and trying to learn trigger control.
 When my son Adam started shooting I put the best in his hand, he was 10 years old when he first shot at Perry. Look at the Junior records, most would love to be able to shoot the scores he has, they are listed along with the other records. Keep in mind those are Junior scores!
 If after a while you do decide to give up, a good gun is easy to sell and you probably will get at least your money back. Yet if you do enjoy competition it will not be necessary to get another gun. I wouldn't waste my time and money on that junk!

Not everyone has plans, desires, time, resources, to ever be on the elite level.

OldMaster66 wrote:Mac/anyone. Looking for updates on the Victory. Spring should have got there by now. It was 82 here today in the shade.

Len

Dear Len:   On the ONE day with almost good weather:  cut grass, moved a target stand to 50 yards over a "grass" blanket to catch lead,  and started to break-in new G34 Gen4 MOS with Venom sights to use in GSSF match at end of July.  Never needed to break-in Glocks before, but these two always fire if the round gets into chamber and then the empty might not get ejected.  I hope it is just a tight chamber issue.

Wife also became interested in IDPA competition - what a task to find a belt holster for a woman!  She likes to shoot and few Summer shooting events exist within reasonable driving distance.

Bullseye CF:  As of yesterday, have 9mm barrel with one turn in 32 inches mounted in Range Officer.  The hypothesis that such a twist will enhance performance of shorter bullets will be tested.  Prob. requires finding a helper and taking my R. Rest to indoor 25 yard range.

Bullseye 22:  So, I have been busy.  Yesterday, local national dealer noted that Victories were selling very well (and I shared the desirability of having two T-wrenches and testing tightness of screws) and the BIG dealer down the road was selling them for a good price.  The 4.5 pound-force trigger seems to be usable and I continue to promise to perform a detailed test ASAP.  I have some Federal 711B and CCI SV, and TAC22, and several flavors of Eley to use.  Not sure that I am keen on testing HV ammo, but I do have Federal 719 (which one of our 22A pistols definitely likes).  Thanks for the reminder about unfinished task.

Warm regards from cold, wet Michigan where Spring may not arrive.    Mac

While I somewhat agree, the problem is that there are some conflicting issues.  When a person first tries bullseye it is likely at a local club level.  There the "local guru" voices his opinions on what is an acceptable bullseye pistol.  Most likely it is a high end Euro 25m RF pistol with an optic that costs almost as much.  Then there is the "other local guru" who states that the noob wants to shoot nothing but 45 "til you get distinguished" so spend 1500-2000 for a good custom 45 and a conversion.  Then there is the middle of the pack guy saying to buy a Ruger and then spend as much putting in triggers and optics.....   I saw this happen a lot in high power and it drove some shooters away.   

All the person wanted to do was try bullseye and see if he/she likes it.  For these, the Victory or another "starter firearm may be a decent choice.  I wouldn't classify them as junk.

Froneck wrote:I see quite a bit of talk about entry level pistols for competition, that's a very big mistake! I know those top end guns are expensive but those plinkers are not worth getting for target use! The idea is to learn how to shoot as may holes in the center of the target, getting a gun that will not do it will lead to frustration and you will soon quit. Learning to shoot is a series of Ah Ha's!!! When ever you do what is required to make a perfect shot and you scope the target and see a hole in the X ring you will say Ah Ha that's how it's done. But if you do as previously mentioned yet the gun sends the bullet in the 9 ring or worse you will be scratching you head wondering what you did wrong! Or have a trigger pull that's like dragging an anchor on a rocky lake bottom and trying to learn trigger control.
 When my son Adam started shooting I put the best in his hand, he was 10 years old when he first shot at Perry. Look at the Junior records, most would love to be able to shoot the scores he has, they are listed along with the other records. Keep in mind those are Junior scores!
 If after a while you do decide to give up, a good gun is easy to sell and you probably will get at least your money back. Yet if you do enjoy competition it will not be necessary to get another gun. I wouldn't waste my time and money on that junk!

On the other hand...I've never been able to just observe a match without someone putting a gun in my hand.
I always have a reasonable backup 22 to hand to a new shooter to try.

Wobbley and Steve have bracketed the issue.   How wonderful it would be for Bullseye for clubs to have a Victory on hand including a reasonable red-dot sight.  Have safety glasses and hearing-protection also on hand and send the visitor out to shoot.  A light-weight, flapper target that provides feedback without an emphasis on hitting the center of a target will also be desirable.  An even lighter trigger would be off-putting to a new shooter.  The new person is likely to be in need of using a red-dot sight.  Let the visitor experience the pleasure of shooting.  For goodness sake stay away from what it COULD cost.  Provide a later time for coaching.  . . . and my experience is that if the visitor is a woman, be prepared for a demonstration of a latent skill - women listen.

Recrutment is needed to keep Bullseye going.  There is every reason to believe that the US made Victory is able to be part of the solution.
Just an opinion.   Mac

I have seen some excellent scores posted with stock Ruger Mark II's in .22 EIC competition. At least I think a 291 is an excellent score. It was certainly enough to earn the shooter a leg.

A fully decked out European super gun designed for Olympic shooting is not what I was talking about. A gun that fits the shooters hand, grouping in the X ring at 50 yards that has a good trigger probably with a stop screw and functions reliably is all that is needed. The new shooter is better off getting a good used pistol made back when they were built to shoot great. The industry is pandering to the two handed shooter that shoots at targets with large scoring rings at nearly point blank range. Seems like the red dot scope makers are doing the same thing, UltraDot was once a great scope but seem to be going down hill!
 Having a bad gun and struggling soon someone will suggest a new barrel, another tells him he needs a trigger job, add better grips and soon the new shooter finds he has more money in a cheap gun than he would spent for a good one which get worse when he goes up in caliber.
 The guy at the club that drags out some fancy super race gun with all the bells and whistles and tells the new shooter he needs one is probably not a good shooter having that kind of gun to attempt to buy a score. Yes a top made super accurate pistol with completely adjustable trigger will shave a few points when used by a high master but does nothing for the new shooter except it will at least put a great gun in his hand but if he thinks he will start shooting master scores with is he will soon find out the major adjustment needed is between his ears!
 Hi Standard, Browning, Ruger and others were good guns. I recommended the Browning Buckmark when they first came out. Adams first gun was a S&W 622 because it was light and easy for a young kid to shoot. (He was 8 years old at that time and Buckmark wasn't out yet) I did a trigger job, removed the device that prevents firing when the clip is not inserted, installed a trigger stop screw (I think can't remember if it had one stock) and mounted an UltraDot scope on it. It grouped in the X ring at 50 yards.
 I'm not pointing out any particular gun, I'm saying that the gun has to be capable of shooting a great score because if it don't nothing can be learned!

I bought a sw22 victory put the volquartsen fluted barrel with comp and new grips from precision target pistol grips ,took it to the range today and it shot equal to my hammerli exesse

Nanook has provided a measure.  But please tell more:  Did a compensator actually improve performance?  Who makes the enhanced grips and what do they look like?  What ammo preference did you find?  What sights?

At long last, today in Michigan we had sunlight for a few hours, but my time had to be spent doing outside things not associated with shooting - well, I did mow the range.  . . . and then something broke on the tractor.

Mac

Precision target grips

http://www.precisiontargetpistolgrips.com/

I have a 1" ultra dot on it , precisiontargetpistolgrips.com is where I got the grips ,go to his website and it tells all about them,I don't know how much difference the comp makes other then it being included with the barrel from volquartsen.it seems to prefer sk pistol match ,I have also tried wolf ,cci standard vel. , and eley club.
Today I shot eley club 10 rounds at 50 feet each ,switching  between my  excesse and  sw22 with 60 rounds fired through each and compared scores with the results being about even. My exesse came from larrys guns ,with his trigger job and also has a 1" ultra dot.
Grips for the sw22 just came and this was my first time using them.the exesse I have had awhile and have shot many rounds thru it.it is a little lighter in weight  Then the sw22 and I'm thinking the carbon fiber barrel from volquartsen might even things out even more.