Distinguished.22

by Jon Eulette Tue Aug 09, 2016 11:39 pm

Do you need a hard leg to get your .22 distinguish badge?
Jon

by Allen Barnett Tue Aug 09, 2016 11:47 pm

Ok I'll bite and show my stupidity. What do you mean by a "hard leg"? Aren't leg points leg points?

by Jon Eulette Tue Aug 09, 2016 11:53 pm

Maybe Clarence Perkins can answer in detail! He needs one for legging out Distinguished Pistol :p)
Jon

by dronning Wed Aug 10, 2016 12:01 am

Allen Barnett wrote:Ok I'll bite and show my stupidity. What do you mean by a "hard leg"? Aren't leg points leg points?

A hard leg means you have received an 8 or 10 point leg. That means you can't win your local match with just enough shooters to get minimum points (6 points) 5 times. That's why it's called a "Hard" leg - it's harder because there are more shooters.

I added the rule 9.4.7 below, it is confusing I think they added the 22 rimfire reference in the wrong place (does anyone ever proofread this stuff). Looks like you need a hard leg.

- Dave
to get win an 8 point leg there has to be a minimum of 16 non- distinguished shooters there and you need to come in first if there are over 35 and if you win you get a 10 point leg, if you come in second you get an 8 point leg.

Page 67:
https://thecmp.org/wp-content/uploads/Rulebook.pdf

9.4.7 Awarding of Distinguished Badges The CMP awards the Distinguished Pistol Shot Badge or the Distinguished Rifleman Badge when a Civilian competitor earns 30 or more points in.22 Rimfire Pistol EIC Matches and has earned at least one eight or ten-point award.

by Jon Eulette Wed Aug 10, 2016 12:51 am

I have 18 points now ( 3 matches each 6 pt leg). This weekend I'll have 6 more bringing it up to 24 pts. So I'll have to probably wait for Phoenix in February to leg out.
Jon

by Jack H Wed Aug 10, 2016 5:11 am

Jon Eulette wrote:I have 18 points now ( 3 matches each 6 pt leg). This weekend I'll have 6 more bringing it up to 24 pts. So I'll have to probably wait for Phoenix in February to leg out.
Jon

Confidence

by L Valdez Wed Aug 10, 2016 1:00 pm

The CMP stated the 22 Rimfire EIC was to attract women and young shooters, yet the only ones getting the EIC medals are the hard holding experienced shooters.

by C.Perkins Wed Aug 10, 2016 7:54 pm

Jon Eulette wrote:Maybe Clarence Perkins can answer in detail! He needs one for legging out Distinguished Pistol :p)
Jon

Jon;

Been sitting on 30 points since April of 2011 (five, 6 pointers).
To leg out, you need a 10 or 8 point leg.
All civilian leg points at Perry are 10 points.

So my journey to Perry for the first time was this year.

Was doing okay until the last 5 shot string of rapid fire.
Dropped 16 points for an 82.

OH, THE HUMANITY

The rest is history until next time Smile

Clarence

by Allen Barnett Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:25 pm

Ok so now I know and yes my memory has been jogged. I did once place high enough at the Wilson matches one year to win an 8 point leg but was booted all the way out because of a "clerical error" as it was explained to me. Another member on our guard team lost a 6 point leg due to the same error.

by DeweyHales Wed Aug 10, 2016 11:31 pm

L Valdez wrote:The CMP stated the 22 Rimfire EIC was to attract women and young shooters, yet the only ones getting the EIC medals are the hard holding experienced shooters.

Shooting next to those hard holders is a great way to learn. Plus, when you start beating some of them, it proves you're learning something.

by john bickar Thu Aug 11, 2016 1:11 am

DeweyHales wrote:
L Valdez wrote:The CMP stated the 22 Rimfire EIC was to attract women and young shooters, yet the only ones getting the EIC medals are the hard holding experienced shooters.
Shooting next to those hard holders is a great way to learn. Plus, when you start beating some of them, it proves you're learning something.

That's how I was raised.

by CR10X Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:11 am

L Valdez wrote:The CMP stated the 22 Rimfire EIC was to attract women and young shooters, yet the only ones getting the EIC medals are the hard holding experienced shooters.

Attracting more shooters and winning or getting points are two entirely different things. There are other sports with "participation medals".

For shooting, we still have to keep the front and rear sights aligned within the aiming area and operate the trigger while maintaining that alignment. That first step when novices actually go to the line and see how tough it is is a real eye opener that some people cannot overcome. Just pointing the gun and pulling the trigger will not get points (distinguished or otherwise).

But, for the few that feel the challenge and get a taste of the incredible sense of accomplishment, they will strive to get better. And that means learning the fundamentals from other shooters. That is a great responsibility for the other shooters, do not treat it lightly.

(There, see I did turn a "discussion" post into a "fundamentals" post)

CR

by dronning Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:20 am

L Valdez wrote:The CMP stated the 22 Rimfire EIC was to attract women and young shooters, yet the only ones getting the EIC medals are the hard holding experienced shooters.

It has also brought back shooters that could no longer take CF & 45 recoil. The NRA .22 rim fire 2700 has also kept several shooters I know with arthritis on the line.

- Dave

by james r chapman Thu Aug 11, 2016 1:13 pm

That .22 2700 might be what saves Perry,

by weber1b Thu Aug 11, 2016 1:18 pm

My wife and I have been discussing bullseye for her as she would like to spend more time together. She would start out as a 22 only shooter. So this approach is perfect for her. I think if she takes to it, then a 32 would be the next step. It will take a long time, if ever, to get her to shoot a 45. She has shot them, just not a big fan.

by Jon Eulette Thu Aug 11, 2016 1:46 pm

In my opinion, my 45 with 3.3 gr BE shoots softer FEEL than typical .32 long. The euro grip & angle seems to drive recoil straight into the elbow. 45 can be softened up for a woman and be reliable with real powder puff loads.
Jon

by JayhawkNavy02 Thu Aug 11, 2016 4:44 pm

Jon Eulette wrote:I have 18 points now ( 3 matches each 6 pt leg). This weekend I'll have 6 more bringing it up to 24 pts. So I'll have to probably wait for Phoenix in February to leg out.
Jon

Maybe not

by Doug Tiedt Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:23 pm

L Valdez wrote:The CMP stated the 22 Rimfire EIC was to attract women and young shooters, yet the only ones getting the EIC medals are the hard holding experienced shooters.

I know this is what the CMP stated, but does anyone here actually follow the logic?

How many of us learned of the CMP first, said wow, I think I'll try shooting a gun? You have to be pretty involved in some
aspect of shooting to even come across the CMP, or have friends/acquaintances that are involved. Think of how many
millions of gun owners we have the US alone that are completely unaware of the CMP... or shooting competitions.

I am not arguing against the 22 Rimfire EIC, I just don't comprehend how the CMP thought that would draw new shooters
to the sport. Those new shooters still need to be introduced to shooting by someone, like us perhaps.

Doug

by jmdavis Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:44 pm

L Valdez wrote:The CMP stated the 22 Rimfire EIC was to attract women and young shooters, yet the only ones getting the EIC medals are the hard holding experienced shooters.

The ones SO FAR, are hard holding experienced shooters. But I have seen more women and youth on the line for the 22 EIC than for the Service Pistol. I have also seen guys that legged out years ago return to shoot the matches. Win, win. I think.

by weber1b Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:57 pm

jmdavis wrote:
L Valdez wrote:The CMP stated the 22 Rimfire EIC was to attract women and young shooters, yet the only ones getting the EIC medals are the hard holding experienced shooters.

The ones SO FAR, are hard holding experienced shooters. But I have seen more women and youth on the line for the 22 EIC than for the Service Pistol. I have also seen guys that legged out years ago return to shoot the matches. Win, win. I think.

+1

by jmdavis Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:13 pm

Doug Tiedt wrote:
I know this is what the CMP stated, but does anyone here actually follow the logic?

How many of us learned of the CMP first, said wow, I think I'll try shooting a gun? You have to be pretty involved in some
aspect of shooting to even come across the CMP, or have friends/acquaintances that are involved. Think of how many
millions of gun owners we have the US alone that are completely unaware of the CMP... or shooting competitions.

I am not arguing against the 22 Rimfire EIC, I just don't comprehend how the CMP thought that would draw new shooters
to the sport. Those new shooters still need to be introduced to shooting by someone, like us perhaps.

I see a lot of people at Perry every year for SAFS that have never really shot. I also saw an increase in attendance at the Creedmoor Cup pistol matches and more people staying to shoot the leg matches at Regionals.

Shooting next to Joe Chang, Kent Le, John Shue or a bunch of the other hard holders is a lesson in what is possible.

by Froneck Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:54 pm

As I said a looong time ago new shooters thinking they will get easy points in the .22 Distinguished match are kidding themselves. Simply put all the shooters are not .22 Distinguished and every shooter will be counted and until those shooter that have become Distinguished with Service Pistol have gain the .22 medal will the score lower enough so that newer shooter have a chance.
Remember the CMP are like our Politicians and say anything just to make it sound good. I'll bet they understood that all those shooters that became Service Pistol Distinguished will sign-up for .22 because they have no chance to win anything in Service pistol once Distinguished. Only thing available is High Civilian.
I'm also told one of the reason that it was done was to generate interest in International Standard Pistol which is very similar. To make it "FAIR" to woman shooters in the Olympics there is talk about eliminating Rapid Fire and replacing it with Standard Pistol. Hence the addition of the Ready position.

by orpheoet Fri Aug 12, 2016 2:03 pm

Around me if you aren't shooting 280's in the .22 EIC you aren't getting any points.....

by jmdavis Fri Aug 12, 2016 3:30 pm

There's no such thing as easy points that I can tell. There's sometimes easier points, but the cuts that I've seen for 22 aren't that bad. They are sure better than those I have seen at some small rifle matches.

But all it takes on any given day is to be in the top 10% and break 260. I think that the lowest I have seen is 265 and the highest 290.

by dronning Fri Aug 12, 2016 5:22 pm

Froneck wrote:became Service Pistol Distinguished will sign-up for .22 because they have no chance to win anything in Service pistol once Distinguished. Only thing available is High Civilian.

For 2016 "The CMP has reinstated its traditional medallion awards for the first three place winners in EIC matches."

The CMP listened to the complaints and soon realized they would loose all the distinguished competitors.

- Dave

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