general spring & load question.

went to range today ..shot some 180gr Penn LSWC over 3.8 BE ...needed to put the 10# in gun and it's still not quite light enuff ....so here's my plan ..load the 180's @ 4.0 BE .....and laod my 200gr LSWC @ 4.0 BE as well ..same load simple enought ..I have a 10# and 11# spring to pick from , I hope that either spring will run both loads ....of course noone out there can say which one ..But in this situation do I need to worry about frame batterying or would I appear to be safe......I would almost think that once I load the 180's @ 4.0 the 11# would handle booth loads ....but I dont have enuff experience to know how much .2 of BE make a difference......

Bumping that load .2 gr will make a big difference. I run 4.2 gr of BE, 185 gr swaged, with my slide mount dot and a 14# spring

My advice is to always use the heaviest recoil spring with which your gun will reliably function when using a target load.

I think you are on the right track with that 4.0 BE load. That is a classic load that is known to be accurate in most guns, but you can also go a tenth or two higher if needed with a new tight gun to get good function. I also use a 200 grain bullet at 50 yards and a 180 or 185 at 25 yards, both with 4.0 BE as a way to get slightly better accuracy for slow fire and a little less recoil for sustained fire. The basic rule of thumb is to find an accurate load you want to use in your gun and then use the heaviest spring that will give complete reliability, but don't go under about a 10# recoil spring to be sure of consistent lockup.

When you first start out it takes a while to get all the equipment stuff worked out but as soon as you can just settle on something that works for you and spend your time and effort on the shooting fundamentals. Then it becomes a mostly mental game and the real fun begins!

when back to the range on sunday, and the shot the 180's again at 4.0 BE ....Looks like it'll be the 10# with that load . The 200 's worked fine with the 3.8 BE and the 11# spring .......most of my slow fire is high 80's and just breakin 90....with either load ....

lighter the bullet the more powder you need to push it.

DavidR wrote:lighter the bullet the more powder you need to push it.

I'm not sure if the 180's will run at the 4.0 BE and #10 spring as I forgot the 10 spring sunday. But with the 11 it was right on the edge ....if I need to up the powder any further I'll have to go to 4.2 .....But before I do that I'll just get some 185's so I can be more inline with has been proven already.....

Ok, Ive been loading and testing for a long time, there is something off somewhere in your loads, it could be too loose a crimp, or a inaccurate scale. Ive shot 3.9 of be and a 180 gr. lasercast bullet and it functioned a brand new les baer with a 11 lb spring and the LB is much tighter fit than a RO has. 4 gr of BE will cycle a 12 lb spring with a 180 and a 14 with a 200gr if loaded to .469 crimp. Have you ran a check of your exact crimp? and one of your scale? You must measure crimp with a good caliper at the very most top edge of the loaded round and with minimal pressure applied. Its easy to press harder and read a tighter crimp. As to powder you need to check your scale with a know weight, a new us bill of any denomination weighs 1 gram. If that shows true, then set your powder measure to throw the desired weight and then throw 10 charges and it should weigh within one tenth of exact, in other words 10 throws of 4.0 should read no more or less than 40.1 or 39.9 My load for a 185 is 3.9 gr BE, .469 crimp ana a OAL of 1.215 and it cycles my 11 lb spring fine.

David ,

I tend to agree with you . I will throw some charges and check with the scale . I will also recheck my crimp . I shot some this morning before work the 180's with 4.0 BE and #10 spring would eject and the gun locked back at the end of the mag. I would say the cases would have gone 3ft straight out the side of the gun with the last rd seemed to come more back toward my right sholder. I then shot my 200gr with 3.8 of BE again #10 spring they ejected with more zip and where hitting the divder between the stalls......its vry possible my crimp could be on the lose side...I know that with the 14 spring the cases just fell out the side of the gun(3.8BE 200gr)...I will check the things you mentioned and go from there. Since I'm useing a lee press my powder dump has those disc's and the loads for BE pretty much run in .2 increments ,3.6,3.8,4.0 .I have no trouble with 3.8 or 4.0 with 180 or 200 grain heads they both shoot better than I am at this point. I believe my dump runs alittle light but if I had to guess my crimp is probaly at most of the issue....Ive heard that trimming .45 cases is kinda not needed but at this point I think it could be a good idea for me to trim 100 cases just for the sake of makeing them the same so I can work with the crimp all I need to pick up for that is a pilot for my trimmer...measureing the crimp can be a pain and I bet I'm useing to much pressure .

I've been using a Lee Pro Auto-disc measure and it always throws a way lighter charge than their table shows- this is true for the several powders I use. You have to check with a scale. The best way is to throw ten charges into the scale pan and weigh it, then the average is what you use.

No need to trim a 45 case, these type cases shrink rather than grow from use, just measure them and use the most close to the same, as to crimp, the biggest issue is people tend to press to hard on the caliper when checking, this will give the perception of a crimp as much as 4 thousandths more than it really has, a light crimp lets the bullet leave the case faster before the required pressure to operate the gun has been reached and the powder doesn't have time for a complete burn which dirties the gun up way faster too.

davekp,

I havent done the 10 charge test yet, I will borrow a dillion digital scale this weekend to check . But useing my lee balance beam depending on how acurately I calibrate it my disc for 4.0 be would seem pretty close and consistant .I may be a tad light , but like I said I will check with my freinds dillion scale .....and go for the average

DaveR,

How close should I group my cases lenght wise....for some reason I have a hard time getting a good crimp reading. what seems easyest for me is to lay the loaded rd on it side and just with the very tip of the caliper grab to case mouth with just enuought pressure to barely be able to start to lift the case....the lee crimp puts a slight roll on the case mouth which that tapered edge makes getting a good reading a pain....my crimp would appear to be closer to .470 .....I am also wondering ...I would bet the RO doesnt have a match grade chamber as your kart barrels do so I wonder of that could be playing into the equation. Aslo evry bullet I measure reads .451 and I know I ordered .452 ....maybe my calipers are off......

Most lead bullets are .452, so i would defiantly check the calipers. To check crimp, just hold the shell and use the sharp part of the jaws to check the top edge with only enough force to touch them, if you can pick up a loaded shell, that's too much. You really need to ditch the lee die and get a true taper crimp die. Do your shot shells look black and dirty? thats the unburned powder that didnt ignite if they are.

Paper-Puncher:

Have you tried a lighter MAIN spring?

I do have some knowledge as to what it takes to get a 1911 to run with light loads.

I shoot a 38 long heavy slide with a UD 4-DOT mounted on the slide.

The load I shoot is 2.8 gr of BE under a 148 grain WC.

Dave C.

DavidR wrote:Most lead bullets are .452, so i would defiantly check the calipers. To check crimp, just hold the shell and use the sharp part of the jaws to check the top edge with only enough force to touch them, if you can pick up a loaded shell, that's too much. You really need to ditch the lee die and get a true taper crimp die. Do your shot shells look black and dirty? thats the unburned powder that didnt ignite if they are.

ya they are blackish on the end ......bet thats my issue not enought crimp. my crimp now measured closer to .470 ....looks like tomorrow morning I'll sort thru some brass for length and and be more critical there and shoot for a tighter crimp and and good measurement.and see what that does for me and start locking for a new set of calipers and a better die.

Paper-Puncher wrote:davekp,


How close should I group my cases lenght wise....

....the lee crimp puts a slight roll on the case mouth which that tapered edge makes getting a good reading a pain....

I don't load more than 2 to 3 hundred at a time but I clean then size and knock out primers. Then sort to .001" and throw them in 2# coffee cans. I normally have enough to be able to load a batch of the same length but have occasionally had to bridge from say .892" to .891" and haven't had to change the crimp die (RCBS taper crimp die). I attempt only to remove the flare and if I have a slight roll on the case I feel like it's overcrimped.

Just my $0.02 worth.

Bart