CMP Service Pistol now 9MM & 38 Super OK

First topic message reminder :

CMP changes Service Pistol rules again

"U. S. Government or Colt M1911 Service Pistols or commercial versions of the same type (M1911). These pistols may be chambered for any cartridge with a bore diameter not less than 9mm and not greater than .45” and have a barrel length not greater than 5.100”."


- Dave

Rule sounds good to me. Solves my issue. Wanted to go with 9mm, did not want to drop the $$$ trying to fix up a Beretta. 

I'm in the market for a Range Officer 9mm.

I shot my first CMP Service Pistol last month at Camp Pendleton. Reaaly enjoyed it.

Used my Glock 34, the only centerfire pistol I have with metallic sights.  I wouldn't have attended if I couldn't have used it.

gregbenner wrote:I shot my first CMP Service Pistol last month at Camp Pendleton. Reaaly enjoyed it.

Used my Glock 34, the only centerfire pistol I have with metallic sights.  I wouldn't have attended if I couldn't have used it.

good for you!

Glock gave out 1 free glock to the highest glock shooter in the P100.. maybe they will do it again this year and you can get a new gun!

Springfield has already said they will be doing the XDM thing again this year.. so gonna win me a new gun in 2017

That rule book adds a NRA style classification system and adds a match rifle category. It'll be interesting to see if Pistol follows. 

I had a 9mm 1911 built while I was shooting my Berettas. I'm looking forward to getting it out to the line. 

As long as the military teams are there shooting iron sighted pistols that look like those used in combat, the connection to the past is strong. The people and gear change, but the spirit and camaraderie remain.

Since powder puff loads are the new norm for service pistol I would stick with 45 over the 9mm. 9's are finicky to load for and 45 is very forgiving. My 45 loads are shooting softer than Atlanta Arms 9mm. The 9 with right ammo is slightly more accurate than the 45 at 50 yds but comes at the cost of recoil. I'd rather shoot softer recoiling ammo because more forgiving to shooter error. 45 will hold X at 25 yds with lightest of loads. I'll take a forgiving set-up with great trigger over most accurate anyday. I haven't had time to work on soft loads for 9mm yet. In near future! Also 230 gr ball bullets shoot excellent at lower velocities!
Jon

Got a nice soft load now that should work. 135gr Nosler HP 8.7 gr of Universal and a 24# recoil spring. It's the recoil spring that makes it so soft. 400 Corbon is legal now also.

LenV wrote:Got a nice soft load now that should work. 135gr Nosler HP 8.7 gr of Universal and a 24# recoil spring. It's the recoil spring that makes it so soft. 400 Corbon is legal now also.

Probably be like one of those bump stocks for the AR when the slide comes slamming home.  Get all your shots off in about .5 seconds  

- Dave

Glock indicates that the barrel of a stock G34 is 5.31 inches, which is greater than 5.1 inches.

Mac

That 5.1 stipulation is for 1911's. They allow the XDM 5.25" and G34. If you get down to brass tacks, it is odd they are retaining that 5.1" rule.

gregbenner wrote:I shot my first CMP Service Pistol last month at Camp Pendleton. Reaaly enjoyed it.

Used my Glock 34, the only centerfire pistol I have with metallic sights.  I wouldn't have attended if I couldn't have used it.

Greg,
Thanks for mentioning you would not have started without the rule change. The match directors and CMP need to hear that their rule change is adding shooters to the rosters because they get mostly negative feedback. glad to hear you enjoyed yourself.

On the CMP EIC score card, you right down the make and model of gun.  Not sure if the CMP pays attention.

Thanks.   All good to know.  
All in all, encouraging new competitors is good.   Mac

I know for the P100 match I came in 8th and had the highest 1911 score (381-5x).  1-7 all used Beretta's.  What I will cherish more than the award from Springfield was the kudos I got from the military shooters as I walked up there. 

I've talked to several of the top shooters and they all echo the same statement that the Beretta is a more accurate service pistol when its accurized.  I will be very interested to see how this plays out.

My own opinion is that the two things that should always be part of service pistol are iron sights and 4 lb. trigger.  Other than that, bring what you have.

Great job.  That a (undesirable to me) Beretta in 9mm can actually do well even if re-manufactured gives me encouragement to find a real pistol that can also do well in bullseye using 9mm.  Sure wish details of their barrel twist (expect slow) and bullet length/weight, and velocity were published.  A possibility is that loads were so hot that only young fellows could deal with recoil and that life of pistol is limited.  
Congratulations again.   Mac

KKM barrels Atlanta Arms ammo.  For sale to general public.

I build many 9mm's for PPC. They get steady diet of jacketed 9mm over 1050 fps. Pistols built over 5 yrs ago are still holding an inch at 50 yds with over 60,000 rds through them. The 9 does bark a little with these loads and will definately show flaws in your fundamentals. I've used both Kart and KKM and they both perform exceptionally. I'm still a fan of the 45 though if you reload. Not finicky to load and very forgiving to shoot. So given the option to shoot any gun I would still choose 1911 in 45.
Jon

Chris Miceli wrote:KKM barrels Atlanta Arms ammo.  For sale to general public.

+1
The 9MM KC built for me has a KKM 1-32 twist barrel.  The AA 115gr JHP (Hornady XTP bullets) shot many 50yd 10 shot groups under 1 1/4" and at least 5 groups under 1".   

My reloads were almost as tight but I only had 1 group under 1" with my reloads.  Starline brass, 5.4 WSF, Hornady 115gr XTP or HAP bullets, 1.090 OAL.  Both the AA ammo and my reloads run about 1,100 FPS.  Recoil was way sharper with the 9MM than my soft 45 loads that give me a 2" group (also a KC gun).  If I load the 45 hotter my groups shrink to 1 1/2" using a 185gr SWCHP.    

Unfortunately no iron sights on either gun.

- Dave

Chris, Jon, and Dave:  Your information is helpful.  Many thanks.
I have fit a KKM 1 in 32 barrel to a 9mm Range Officer and intend to evaluate same in comparison to factory barrel.  At an indoor bullseye match this week, a fellow competitor mentioned that he had had success with a 1/32 KKM barrel in 9mm (and then went to a 32 in an Italian something!).  It is cold and that slows testing even though have range here.

Have been using HAP 115 with WSF about 5 grains and overall of 1.10 inches.  HAP is almost the same as the high-price XTP bullet.  Wonder what the overall length of the Atlanta Arms might be - and bullet weight.  Any measurements?  Looks as if more powder should be tested and probably seating bullet out a bit farther.

However, more and more it looks as if, for pistols of the same weight and barrel length, 45ACP can provide less recoil shooting at 50 yards than 9mm.  So far, each 45ACP pistol (except for an early Glock 30 with adjustable sights) has weighed quite a bit more than the 9mm pistols - and that colors the impression of recoil.  Nails the ten ring with first 45ACP shot and next five in the black, and then fatigue sets in.  What we all know is that "fit" is not at all a simple bit of geometry. 

Thanks for continuing sharing and advice.    Mac

gregbenner wrote:I shot my first CMP Service Pistol last month at Camp Pendleton. Reaaly enjoyed it.

Used my Glock 34, the only centerfire pistol I have with metallic sights.  I wouldn't have attended if I couldn't have used it.

 PM sent

Mac2 wrote:...  Wonder what the overall length of the Atlanta Arms might be - and bullet weight.  Any measurements?  

The OAL's are listed on their website.
The batch of 115gr JHP AA ammo I had were 1.090" OAL ran 1,100 FPS but they are listed on the website as 1.075",  I used 1.090" for both XTP & HAP.  The AA 115gr FMJ "AMU rounds" are listed as 1.13" OAL ran 1,150 and they ones I got were exactly 1.13".

The JHP rounds I bought were from another bullseye shooter and were 3 years old that may have been the reason for the difference in length verses what's on their website.

I loaded both the JHP & FMJ and the JHP were just slightly better.  I use Starline brass for my 9MM reloads.

- Dave