Winchester Primers

Am I the only one having problems with Winchester primers as of late?  I seem to have at least one or two that go in upside down, sideways, or otherwise don't seat properly in every 200 rounds or so.  I have been a Winchester Primer user for years with no problems.  I have tried cleaning the press, putting light pressure on the primer column when loading the primers in the press, overall being careful while loading tubes and the press.

At the last 1800 indoor match I talked to others who also reload and some have stated they also have had problems with Winchester Primers.  One shooter suggested using Federal primers.  Darn, I have lots of Winchester primers and it seems Federal are harder to get/find.


So, I got my hands on Federal primers and I tried them yesterday.  I loaded 500 rounds without a hitch.  Now I'm beginning to believe that Winchester quality control is slipping.  Anyone else with these observations?

Upside down is probably operator error.

I started reloading again two yearsago after a 50 year break. I been using WSP and WLP for the last two years and the last 1000 I have had 1 in every 100 that wants to jam in the filler tube for my 500.  I just started on a new batch of 1000 and will see how they do.  Don

You didn't say what type of press you are using.

I was having the same problem with my Dillon 650 and wanted to blame everything but myself. In loading 100 rounds I would get as many as 7-12 primers that were flipped or sideways. I called Dillon and they had no answer. After all's said and done it was operator error from trying to go fast and not being smooth. I was pulling the lever like it was the dollar slot machine in Vegas. Once I slowed down and worked the lever smoother the problem went away.   YMMV


Virgil

Thread over on 1911 forum on similar question about Win primers

Virgil Kane wrote:You didn't say what type of press you are using.

I was having the same problem with my Dillon 650 and wanted to blame everything but myself. In loading 100 rounds I would get as many as 7-12 primers that were flipped or sideways. I called Dillon and they had no answer. After all's said and done it was operator error from trying to go fast and not being smooth. I was pulling the lever like it was the dollar slot machine in Vegas. Once I slowed down and worked the lever smoother the problem went away.   YMMV


Virgil

I am using a Dillion 550 and the problem is in loading the refill tubes.  That is where the one in a 100 is jamming.  It is right at the point where the plastic pick up part meats the metal tube.  It is just like that one doesn't want to fit up into the tube.  It then needs to be pushed out from the other end after dumping the tube into the 550 primer feed tube.  Never have had a flipper primer while reloading but then in operate the press petty slow.  Don

I just reviewed the thread on the 1911 forum.

I've had a lot of problems with WLP on my Hornady LNL press with soft hits.

2 different guns
Tried long firing pins, no help.
Increased mainspring weight, no help.
I use all Starline brass, bought new but reloaded at least 3 or 4 times.
I wet tumble but do not de-prime first.

Buddy uses my press to reload. CCI primers, no soft hit issues.

He uses any range brass he finds.
He bead blasts to clean and doesn't de-prime first.
I do a lot of his loading on the press so it's not a different operator.

My conclusion: Finish the WLP I have on hand and switch to CCI primers. In the meantime, the night before a match, I sit and squeeze 200 rounds with a hand primer to avoid alibis. It works fine but shouldn't be necessary.

Anyone want to buy 4,000+ WLP at my cost? Bought them at Perry so there was no freight or hazmat fees. Face to face in North Jersey area.

[another note: WLP seem dirty and don't feed load into the tubes or feed through the press as smoothly as the CCI]

I had issues with Winchester in my Dillon 550 with flip over primers. Not very many, but enough to annoy me. When I tried CCI and had zero issues I switched. I just make sure I am supplied out far enough that a short supply issue won't cause me a problem.

I simply polished my primer tube on my 550s to aid in the primers being inserted...you do have to make sure the pickup tube is straight inline with press tube when you release them.. Used to get a few inverted Win primers but it's very rare for me now.. with large primers I don't add any weight on the rod.. I do for small primers on another press.. just what works on my presses.

I've had zero issues with loaded Win primers and any case .. Magtech is a whole other story..

I am using winchester large primers for 45 acp and have had no problems on my Hornady LNL AP A primer sideways or upside down I don't see as a primer problem, possibly an operator problem ?

mspingeld wrote:I just reviewed the thread on the 1911 forum.

I've had a lot of problems with WLP on my Hornady LNL press with soft hits.
...
Anyone want to buy 4,000+ WLP at my cost? Bought them at Perry so there was no freight or hazmat fees. Face to face in North Jersey area.

What do you mean by "soft hits"?  Are you saying that your firing pin isn't hitting hard enough?  Or are you suggesting that the primer wasn't fully seated, so when the firing pin hit it, it wasted so much energy seating the primer the rest of the way, that it didn't go off?  Or something else?   

Someone on that thread at 1911 forum said (and I've read it elsewhere also) that CCI primers are harder, so if you're getting light strikes, wouldn't using CCI primers make the problem worse (unless it's purely a seating problem and the CCI's seat fully more reliably)?

What's the price for the primers?  I've had a few primer seating problems with WLP, but always assumed it was due to my highly variable brass.  I'm about to start using my new Starline brass, though, and if they seat fine in those, I might take you up on that offer.

I have never had a problem with Winchester Primers dating back to late 1970s and I am talking 10K or better a year for many years. I load with a Star press.
Tom Ginovsky

Here's what I believe:

"...the primer wasn't fully seated, so when the firing pin hit it, it wasted so much energy seating the primer the rest of the way, that it didn't go off..."

and:

"...it's purely a seating problem and the CCI's seat fully more reliably..."

Regarding price. I don't remember what Champions Choice (or was it Champions Shooters?) was selling them for at Perry but Midway shows them at $150.00/5000 today. How's $30.00/1000? The only request is, if your interested, you give me a chance to get some CCI primers delivered. I'll order right away if you're interested. We can continue this via PM or email: m spingeld at craftmaster dot net. (no spaces of course).

Thanks,

Mike

I reload S&B primers on my Lee press these days. I find them easier to seat than CCI, so that may help if seating Winchester is the problem. They tend to be a bit cheaper as well. It could be another alternative.

I have a Dillon XL650 with a primer feed problem too.

The problem I have is that the primers will hang up in the feed tube at the transition point to the primer feed mechanism. This seems to occur more as primers get low. I put a weight of the end of the plastic stick that indicates how many primers are remaining to help keep pressure on the stack.  Using the weight has helped but the problem still occurs occasionally.  My quick solution while loading is to tap on that area of the feed system and they free up and drop. I have taken the mechanism apart but the brass reducer doesn't come off of the aluminum tube which I think is where the problem is. I can't polish this area at all which I would think would help.  
I've had this problem for quite a few years but never really thought of primers being the problem. I have used Winchesters for years without any problems but this raises the question that the primers might be the cause.  

John

I had the problem of the primers not dropping into the feed up, or landing on the primer feed bar. When it got down to the end, I would have to tap the primer follower rod.

This was quite a few years ago on the 550. I called Dillon, and he told me to loosen the two screws under the primer feed assembly, push the lever so the  primer feed cup is up in the shellplate. Then rotate the assembly one way or another, and tighten. There is a tiny bit of slop that will allow you to tune it. Mine has to be rotated clockwise looking down at it.

If I go from large to small primers when changing calibers, I always have to re-tune. I have no idea why this works, must be it aligns with the primer stack better. Again, its a tiny amount of movement, but makes a difference. Just something to try if your having that problem.

Mine will feed down to the last primer, even without the follower rod.

I've been reloading with my 650 going on 2 years now. When I first started reloading with it I suffered with the same issue, a few primers going in sideways. I believe one of the steps that causes an issue is when you flip the primer tube once you've filled it. Since there is still a bit of space in there allowing the primers to slide around, 1 or more primers end up sideways inside the tube. Now, when I finish filling the tube with primers I take the plastic rod used for the low primer indicator and gently insert it at the fill end, pushing up on the primers, keeping them from moving as I flip the tube. I rarely have issues since I've started doing this.

I have, in the past, had a similar issue to what the OP is describing. 

What I found is that the primers that were  giving me trouble the anvils weren't seated down into the cup all of the way or slightly crooked which caused them to hang up. 

Kurt

Two things I do to prevent primer hangups:
1. Keep the inside of the primer pickup tubes routinely very clean.
2. While loading primers from the pickup tube into the primer magazine, place the follower rod into the top of the pickup tube against the stack of primers which will aid in adding a slight bit of weight.  Then pull out the retaining pin and the stack of primers will flow downwards easier and more consistently.  I have the Dillon XL 650.

Norman

I loader 800 rounds yesterday using a new batch of WLP and had zero problems.  The batch before was 1 in a 100 bound up going into the primer pick up tube.  That batch was the only batch that I have had any problems with in the last two years.  Well if you don't count spilling them and the time my lady friend opened the box on the way home from the store in my Jeep and said "Hey what are these." as she opened a pack up side down.  Told her not to move on the way home they could blow up.  Don

I reload with Winchester and Federal primers, most recently with WSP.  I have not noticed any issues other than an occasional issue with the primer pocket.  I use range brass for 9mm and used federal for 32.  I like Win over Federal due to the way Federal packages their primers.  I seem to always spill a few getting them from the package to the pickup tube (lol). I've never had issues with any primers flipping sideways in the pickup tube. I've always done what xmastershooter does per above, #2.

Back when I was hot to trot in Cowboy Action, I used to load a ton of 38 Special using CCI primers and my 650 with zero flipped or sideways primer problems regardless of how smoothly the handle was pulled.  However, when I set the machine up to load 44 Special using Winchester primers, I had a crazy amount of flipped and sideways primers. Switched over to CCI primers for the 44 and the problems went away.  I still use and love the Winchester primers but I do not use them with the 650..

I measured the diameters of 3 Winchester primers which were manufactured about 10 years ago, and 3 CCI primers made about 2 years ago. I took 3 measurements on each primer, rotating the primer each time to check for roundness. All primers were perfectly round and measurements were consistent.

Winchester primers:  .210 inch
CCI primers:            .211 inch

Would shooters with the present problematic Winchester primers be so kind to measure the diameters and post their results please.  Curious to see if the diameter may be a factor.

Norman

xmastershooter wrote:I measured the diameters of 3 Winchester primers which were manufactured about 10 years ago, and 3 CCI primers made about 2 years ago. I took 3 measurements on each primer, rotating the primer each time to check for roundness. All primers were perfectly round and measurements were consistent.

Winchester primers:  .210 inch
CCI primers:            .211 inch

Would shooters with the present problematic Winchester primers be so kind to measure the diameters and post their results please.  Curious to see if the diameter may be a factor.

Norman

I wish I had measured the offending primers but I used the bad ones just manually sit them on the press.  There wasw only 1 bad one in each 100.  Used that batch of 1000 up and this batch has not had any bad primers.  Of all my many years of using Winchester primers starting back in the 60s this was my first bad batch.  Don

Just an observation. The problem could just be chromed primer vs brass primer. Brass drags on brass and chrome slides. I know Win primers used to hang up in my old RCBS tubes and the chromed ones didn't. It is also easier to spot the odd upside down primer in the tray if it is bright and shiny. Just another thought.

Len