Winchester Primers

First topic message reminder :

Am I the only one having problems with Winchester primers as of late?  I seem to have at least one or two that go in upside down, sideways, or otherwise don't seat properly in every 200 rounds or so.  I have been a Winchester Primer user for years with no problems.  I have tried cleaning the press, putting light pressure on the primer column when loading the primers in the press, overall being careful while loading tubes and the press.

At the last 1800 indoor match I talked to others who also reload and some have stated they also have had problems with Winchester Primers.  One shooter suggested using Federal primers.  Darn, I have lots of Winchester primers and it seems Federal are harder to get/find.


So, I got my hands on Federal primers and I tried them yesterday.  I loaded 500 rounds without a hitch.  Now I'm beginning to believe that Winchester quality control is slipping.  Anyone else with these observations?

Magload wrote:

Virgil Kane wrote:You didn't say what type of press you are using.

I was having the same problem with my Dillon 650 and wanted to blame everything but myself. In loading 100 rounds I would get as many as 7-12 primers that were flipped or sideways. I called Dillon and they had no answer. After all's said and done it was operator error from trying to go fast and not being smooth. I was pulling the lever like it was the dollar slot machine in Vegas. Once I slowed down and worked the lever smoother the problem went away.   YMMV


Virgil

I am using a Dillion 550 and the problem is in loading the refill tubes.  That is where the one in a 100 is jamming.  It is right at the point where the plastic pick up part meats the metal tube.  It is just like that one doesn't want to fit up into the tube.  It then needs to be pushed out from the other end after dumping the tube into the 550 primer feed tube.  Never have had a flipper primer while reloading but then in operate the press petty slow.  Don

 
I have a 650 and was having trouble with Winchester LPPs.  Called Dillon, replaced some parts, cleaned my entire priming assembly.
Much better, but not fixed.
There are still about 1-2 per 100 that are so large they won't go into the tube. That has nothing to do with the press.
Winchester quality control is UNSAT.  Dillon said they're fielding a large number of complaints from owners and Winchester is a common theme.
This sleeve will be my last, and I'll probably never buy them again.  Going back to CCI or Wolf Match.

On Winchester QA... I shoot a lot of their bulk 22 for practice. Most of it is accurate enough and reliable. But maybe a box in 20 (different batches) will have one dud per 10 rounds. Like they forgot to prime that day. Then with different boxes I'll go 3,000 rounds without a problem... Inconsistent!

While I still use quite a few Win I have found the Wolf to be very good

Some time ago I started this thread in hopes of getting some imput regarding primers going in upside down or sideways while loading on my Dillon 650.  Well, I have solved the problem.  I measured the diameter of 10 Winchester Standard Pistol primers and 10 Federal primers.  The Winchester varied only .0001 (one thousandths of an inch) from .211-.212 (two hundred eleven thousandths to two hundred twelve thousandths) and the Federals were all .2105 (two hundred ten thousandths and half a thousandths) the Federals being more uniform.  I did not think primer size was my problem.  So, I looked at the loader. 
I measured the inside diameter of the brass end on the primer tube, the one that fits inside the outer tube on the Dillon.  The inside diameter was .005 larger than the biggest Winchester primers that I measured. That would be 2 and a half thousandths on each side of the primer.  I decided to make a new brass end and install it.  It is pressed on.  I cut one out on my lathe and cut the clearance in half from the factory one.  I then made a primer follower rod from brass with a knurled end which replaced the plastic one. My thought was added weight on the stack of primers would help. 

Well, so far so good as I have loaded over 500 rounds with not a single primer seating problem. As before I would have 1-3 either upside down or sideways in every 100 I loaded.  I would not think the brass fitting on the end of the primer tube would actually wear with use but I have no way of knowing what the hole diameter was when the press was new but I suspect it has not worn with use.  But a tighter tolerance brass end has fixed my problem.

Darrell, I have a brass "follower rod" for my primer tube that a friend made for me years ago. I have a 550B and never have a problem with inverted primers. I do get a failure to pick up one every so often, but I think I need to clean up the plate and put some graphite on it so it comes back farther.
Stan

Winchester needs to get their dies refurbished. Lay out a TulAmmo, a CCI, a Selior and Beloit next to a Winchester. The difference in quality is amazing. I will try to get a picture tonight.
Right now I am off to an indoor 1800.
Toodles
Ron

I do the same thing as Norman. I use the follower rod from the low primer alarm to add a bit of weight on the pickup tube. The only time I get upside down primers is when I use a vibraprime to fill the pickup tubes. I only use Winchester primers.

I quit Winchester LP after pitting up the breech face on one of my guns. They would just split at the radius of the cup. I found out later that lot number had caused the same problem for other users. These were purchased during the last component shortage and what I thought was bad luck not finding a larger quantity turned out to be a good thing. And as a bonus I found that CCI 300's feed much more reliably in all my presses.
They may be much better now but once bitten twice shy.

Pick out the winchesters.

I"ll bite, third from the top and the bottom in the last pic. All the last ones I bought after they stopped plating them are very dull almost tarnished looking.

We have a winna !
See the difference in their dies ?
The millions they have made from us should warrant some new tooling.

Several years back I had a WLP primer go off in the press. Turned out it was sideways. I know that this will not make sense to some but I determined that I was stroking the handle too fast and I think that the primer was possibly free floating and allowed it to turn sideways. Slowed down a tad and never had the problem again.
Primer pick up tubes need to be cleaned/brushed out on occasion. Had that problem too.
Primers were sticking in primer tube frequently. That turned out to be 1 WLP primer that had a burr on the outside which caused it to be oversize on the primer OD. That took a while to find and remove as I kept putting the same primers back in the tube, and when it came to that primers turn, it blocked all of the other primers.

Honestly on my 550s I've seen more primers flip when being transferred from the tube by the pickup and on the way back to the plate... it's one of the reasons I stop using the failsafe and went back to the old spring to return the power slide. anything to smooth out the operation of the 550 will help..

I've switched to CCI for my 650 loading and using Winchester for single-stage press loading only.

I was flipping and losing primers in SDB and 550 until I put in a new
14051 Primer Retaining Pin

jglenn21 wrote:Honestly on my 550s I've seen more primers flip when being transferred from the tube by the pickup and on the way back to the plate... it's one of the reasons I stop using the failsafe and went back to the old spring to return the power slide. anything to smooth out the operation of the 550 will help..

Hello jglenn21,

Where did you get the old style spring?  Do you have a part number, by chance?

Thanks.

Jim

I had several left over from the older style powder units... I'd call Dillon and ask the service folks about them

Did anyone notice the difference in the primers, the Winchesters can easily flip due to the rounded off edges, try and flip one of the other primers with a nice squared off shoulder.

Am I the only person who uses Federal primers?

Nope, I just did not have one handy to add to the line up.

I bought 1000 Win SPP's (9mm) last summer because the LGS's were out of CCI.  I found them very hard to seat especially in Starline brass with my RCBS hand primer, and nearly punching a hole in the spent primer when sizing/decapping.  The factory tray of 100 was too large for the RCBS feed tray requiring hand-placing 20 or so primers. The last straw was very difficult feeding into the primer tray chute, requiring a few taps to fill the chute once emptied.   Never say never, but, never again.

This issue seems to come up every couple of years or so since they quit plating their primers.   Don't know if its maufacturing or something else.  Anyway. 

Just remember to clean the inside of the pick up tubes and primer feed tubes using small patch, very small rod and alcohol.   All that yellow suff is built up primer dust.  Make sure the crud and other debries are out the primer feed mechanisms.  Last, but not least, I've found that WW are just slightly taller than other primers as the anvil seems to stick out above the cup just a little more.  They are more apt to catch on parts as they run through the machines.  And so with much used / old .45 brass that has the base / primer hole battered to death, the WW does not seem to fully seat as easily or as much as on new brass. 

As a special service to those with problems using WW primers, just drop me a PM for my address and I'll safely dispose of them for you.  

CR

I tend to push really hard to make sure the primers are seated fully. I do not have any issue with WIN primers

Cecil makes A great point about cleaning the primer tube.  Wonder how many have ever done this much less polished the inside. I polish all of mine with a ball hone when I first get them and and clean them as Cecil described.  I simply do not have any flipped primer as a result of the tube.. wish makers would go back to using brass tubes but.....

Any good gunsmith that can re barrel should be able to make you brass tubes, heck you could then make one to hold 200 primers !