LL ammo testing day

by Magload Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:36 am

Not to happy with my Ransom Rest LL test today of my Zero 185gr JHP and SWCHP loads. The range benches just are not good platforms to mount the RR on. They are 1x6 boards across uprights. The JHP did 2.15" and the SCWHP did 2.41" both 10 shot groups. I shot the same size group using a arm rest. I really think if I put my 2-6x pistol scope on the LB just for testing I could sell the Ransom as I wouldn't need it. From the testing I did with the SNS cast SWCs I know that by changing the load of BE by a .1gr at a time the groups may tighten up on the SWCHPs. I did that with the JHPs and the group tightened up till I hit 4.1gr then after that started opening up again. Don

by **Rob Kovach** Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:24 am

I wouldn't be unhappy with a 2.15" or a 2.41" group.

by Magload Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:37 am

Rob Kovach wrote:I wouldn't be unhappy with a 2.15" or a 2.41" group.

You are right I guess I was expecting the 1.6" the test group was that came with the gun. The thing that bothered me was the groups were not round but strung horizontally or at a 45. Maybe that can be blamed on the bench the RR was mounted on. I think with a scope with magnification I would be able to tell if the gun returned to POA after each shot. That is hard to see with a red dot even set at 1 MOA. The manager at the indoor range tells me I expect to much out of a pistol that it will never be a sniper gun. Don

by STEVE SAMELAK Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:40 am

Just because he "manages" a range it doesn't mean he knows what he's talking about. jocolor

by Jon Eulette Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:46 am

[url=

][URL=https://s280.photobucket.com/user/300redbeard/media/20161214_155506_1.jpg.html[/url]
Show him this 50 yd group from RR!
Jon

by Magload Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:05 am

Jon Eulette wrote:[url=][URL=https://s280.photobucket.com/user/300redbeard/media/20161214_155506_1.jpg.html[/url]
Show him this 50 yd group from RR!
Jon

Nice group Jon. Makes you wonder why that one shot had to fall outside the rest of the group. What and how are you mounting your RR on? I am thinking about asking if I can use the concrete bench on the rifle range as they have one position with a 50M backstop. That's if my C clamps will fit. Don

by Chris Miceli Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:20 am

The serious ransom rest bases have feet of concrete

by Jon Eulette Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:21 am

It's common for 1st and last round out of magazine to be a flier. Concrete pillar.

by Chris Miceli Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:32 am

Jon Eulette wrote:It's common for 1st and last round out of magazine to be a flier. Concrete pillar.

I haven't heard of any real reason why

by Chris Miceli Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:38 am

Magload wrote:Not to happy with my Ransom Rest LL test today of my Zero 185gr JHP and SWCHP loads. The range benches just are not good platforms to mount the RR on. They are 1x6 boards across uprights. The JHP did 2.15" and the SCWHP did 2.41" both 10 shot groups. I shot the same size group using a arm rest. I really think if I put my 2-6x pistol scope on the LB just for testing I could sell the Ransom as I wouldn't need it. From the testing I did with the SNS cast SWCs I know that by changing the load of BE by a .1gr at a time the groups may tighten up on the SWCHPs. I did that with the JHPs and the group tightened up till I hit 4.1gr then after that started opening up again. Don

Did you test the Zero 200 lswc?

by r_zerr Wed Feb 22, 2017 11:02 am

Chris Miceli wrote:
Jon Eulette wrote:It's common for 1st and last round out of magazine to be a flier. Concrete pillar.
I haven't heard of any real reason why

I have made a rifle test fixture and placed it on some concrete benches. I can look through the scope, without touching anything, and there is very noticeable vibration. Touch the bench, let someone walk around on the surrounding and connected concrete, and there is lots more movement, greater than 1" at 50 yards.

When I first placed this on a bench made out of welded pipe imbedded in the concrete and with a solid wood table-top, I was appalled. It was immediately apparent after these exercises that testing off of a traditional benchrest, laying on the ground (rifle, not pistol) would still be better than the machine rest on a bench. And that the only way to provide testing level stability is via lots poured concrete and isolation from any surrounding concrete.

I cannot even imagine what the wood benches were doing to the OP's Ransom Rest.

-Ron

by jglenn21 Wed Feb 22, 2017 11:52 am

RR will drive you crazy when you first start messing with it.. you simply can't have a rest heavy or steady enough.. Jerry has posted a picture of his before and it look like a 4x4x4 square concrete fixture with steel beams in it...the base you attach the RR rest to also needs to be very solid

any vibration or movement will affect the RR... Process will affect it also..

the reason the first round many times will be outside a group is that it simply doesn't feed the same as the subsequent rounds.. this is the primary logic behind the Marvel disconnector cut... it smooth's out the first round feed as the slide passes over the disconnector.. On subsequent rounds the disconnector is being head down by the trigger being back so no bump.. sounds crazy but it happens..

many folks will load 6 rounds in the 1st mag and fire the first round away from the following rounds on purpose.. they will also drop the mag after 5 rounds leaving the 6th round in the chamber and insert a mag with 5 rounds... again to eliminate the odd feeding... how you reset the rest is also part of learning to use it..it must be uniform

if you test enough you'll find one mag that simply shoots better than others no matter.. if you identify it only use it for the LL...

given all that it will still drive you nuts sometimes...

by Magload Wed Feb 22, 2017 12:34 pm

Chris Miceli wrote:
Magload wrote:Not to happy with my Ransom Rest LL test today of my Zero 185gr JHP and SWCHP loads. The range benches just are not good platforms to mount the RR on. They are 1x6 boards across uprights. The JHP did 2.15" and the SCWHP did 2.41" both 10 shot groups. I shot the same size group using a arm rest. I really think if I put my 2-6x pistol scope on the LB just for testing I could sell the Ransom as I wouldn't need it. From the testing I did with the SNS cast SWCs I know that by changing the load of BE by a .1gr at a time the groups may tighten up on the SWCHPs. I did that with the JHPs and the group tightened up till I hit 4.1gr then after that started opening up again. Don
Did you test the Zero 200 lswNo Chris all I have are the 185s. Trying to get my bullet buying down to just a few types and weights. I reload and feed 7 different calibers. Don

by Magload Wed Feb 22, 2017 12:52 pm

I know that the way you trigger the RR has a effect. I did some dry firing with is using my Mantisx and could see my triggering movement was being showed. I used it also while doing the live firing test and couldn't see much movement except the muzzle rise on recoil. It was perfectly straight up. I was going to try to expand the display but the battery went dead after two shots so it didn't save. I need to take the SCATT to the range and use it but have to much to drag to the line now with out trying to use a laptop out in the sun. I used one fishing offshore and had to build a shadow box.

There is no way the range is going to put in a concrete and I beam mount so I think my good rest and a scope will do for what I need. Don

by Chris Miceli Wed Feb 22, 2017 12:56 pm

I'm glad Sams and his H.E.G. fixture is only 2 hours away.

by jglenn21 Wed Feb 22, 2017 1:31 pm

Not many of those around..

by jglenn21 Wed Feb 22, 2017 1:33 pm

On triggering the RR some folks use a leather shoe strap to pull the trigger bar.

by Jon Eulette Wed Feb 22, 2017 1:40 pm

I think AMU had the HEG.....too many years ago. For rifle they had a large steel v-block that slid in an oiled bigger v-block. The oil hydraulically kept the upper block from lifting and recoil would slide rifle/block to rear. It was pretty awesome.
The RR has good days and bad days Wink

Can expend lots of ammo and would've been better off using it for practice.
Jon

by Magload Wed Feb 22, 2017 1:41 pm

jglenn21 wrote:On triggering the RR some folks use a leather shoe strap to pull the trigger bar.

I will try that ty.

by jglenn21 Wed Feb 22, 2017 1:49 pm

Heck Jon if I shot as well as you I'd sell mine...

by r_zerr Wed Feb 22, 2017 2:00 pm

Chris Miceli wrote:I'm glad Sams and his H.E.G. fixture is only 2 hours away.

I would like to see some photos of the H.E.G. fixture. I am always in awe that a Ransom rest can be made to perform as well as it does with the wobbly, infinitely adjustable trigger bar, and those rubber/polymer inserts.

-Ron

by Chris Miceli Wed Feb 22, 2017 2:05 pm

here it is

by r_zerr Wed Feb 22, 2017 2:12 pm

Chris,

Thanks. How is the pistol held in place? Triggering?

-Ron

by Chris Miceli Wed Feb 22, 2017 2:18 pm

r_zerr wrote:Chris,

Thanks. How is the pistol held in place? Triggering?

-Ron

no clue, I just drop off guns and $

by r_zerr Wed Feb 22, 2017 3:59 pm

Chris Miceli wrote:
r_zerr wrote:Chris,

Thanks. How is the pistol held in place? Triggering?

-Ron
no clue, I just drop off guns and $

Well, just dropping off guns and money works!

-Ron

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