Changing my Name

After today at the indoor range I am going to change my forum name to Rag Arm.  I am not getting better I am getting worst.  Don't know why got to think about it.  think it started when I took off those petty trigger shoes or maybe when I took off the Matchdot II and put the AimPoint 9000sc on.  I got to go watch the Jags play Preseason football and thing about it.  Don

Sometimes it's easy to be hard on yourself. Seems like as I make progress I start having a higher expectations which leads to disappointment when you have a mediocre day.

When you're at the range practicing and it's not going well switch and train on something else. For example if you're shooting slow fire and not doing well at it switch to the Short Line. And vice versa. And when everything's just going to hell in a handbag pick up your stuff and go home. You don't want to reinforce bad.
Jon

It's a process.

Dry fire like crazy. Watch the dot. The dot will tell you some of what needs corrected.

Jon Eulette wrote:When you're at the range practicing and it's not going well switch and train on something else. For example if you're shooting slow fire and not doing well at it switch to the Short Line. And vice versa. And when everything's just going to hell in a handbag pick up your stuff and go home. You don't want to reinforce bad.
Jon

Very sound advice.  I use it often.  For example, if I find myself thinking too much during slow fire, I sometimes switch to Rapid Fire to get myself back into auto execution.

I maybe should switch to sustained fire i am 9 months into this BE and have only done slow fire.  Figured that if I can't keep them in the black on a 20yd slow Fire target I sure wasn't going to do it TF or RF.  This darn black does seam small at 20 yards. My back has been acting up this week and I been walking with a cane so didn't lug the 40 pound pistol box today.  Can't see the shots in the black with the scope anyway but here this month they been in the white where I can see them.  I think there is not enough lighting on the target as I can see the numbers just fine.  Don Ragarm Johnson  LOL

Being that we are very close in age, my advice is to work on your physical fitness all the time. It doesn't take long at all to lose that muscle tone. We are loosing muscle at a fast rate. I think a high protein diet helps, but check with your doctor. I see that you have been walking with a cane. This probably contributed to you disappointing showing. Another thing I found was that old injuries, in my case a car accident many years ago, rear their ugly heads at this stage in life. My old injury actually resulted in me not being physically capable of holding the pistol up, while on the line at Perry, the last year I went. I was able to deal with it for quite a number of years when younger, but old age made it intolerable. Keep on, keepin' on, but keep your expectations realistic.

I will agree with BE Mike here.  Pt is very important as we get older.  I also think I remember that you have back issues.  And not sure how long your at the range but maybe fatigue is playing a roll.  You changed your red dot and I think your new one weights more.  Which might not be helpful in your case.  I am going lighter with my guns....

First question:

What did you see?  

And if you did not see the front sight / dot from acquisition on the target, during the wobble, when the gun fired and then moving after recoil then ......

It all starts with seeing, not just just looking or focusing on the front sight / dot.  You can move to the target later with the dot, but to get better we need to see what the gun is doing and how operating the trigger and gripping the gun is influencing its orientation.  Parallel movement (wobble) is ok, pitch and yaw are not ok.  So go back to holding, not aiming and really seeing, not just looking.

That's what I go back to every time things start going downhill.

CR

Yes I have L5 vertebrae that is slipped way off the column and pinching the sciatic nerve.  All I have to do it twist wrong and I am on the cane for weeks.  I won't let them do surgery as they have to put in pins and plates and I will be down a long time.  Then too it might not be any better after the operation.  I have lived with this over 20 years and it has at time been a lot worst where I would go down when the back went out.  

I think it is more what Mike said the muscles are just not what they use to be.  I prefer the heavy gun as I have 3 light 22 target pistols and do not like them.  Today I am going to bench rest the Nelson there is something else going on here.  June I was putting 8 of 10 and even 9 of 10 in the black everyday.  July I only dry fired with out the trigger shoes and with the 9000SC.  Started this month with 6 of 10 in black and have dropped now to 2 to 4 in the black.  I do not score the targets.  On this target the first ring out side of the black is the 5 ring and I was keeping them all at least inside it.  I will say the black seams petty small on this target. Yesterday the shots were not hitting to call and even had shots off the paper.  I am not that good anymore but I am not this bad of shooter.

Time to test the gun the Nelson hasn't been field stripped since I bough her and she has 2160 rounds through her all being CCI SV.  Will post how the benchrest went.  Don

CR10X wrote:
It all starts with seeing, not just just looking ....

Amen brother.

Magload wrote:Yes I have L5 vertebrae that is slipped way off the column and pinching the sciatic nerve.  All I have to do it twist wrong and I am on the cane for weeks.  I won't let them do surgery as they have to put in pins and plates and I will be down a long time.  Then too it might not be any better after the operation.  I have lived with this over 20 years and it has at time been a lot worst where I would go down when the back went out.  

I think it is more what Mike said the muscles are just not what they use to be.  I prefer the heavy gun as I have 3 light 22 target pistols and do not like them.  Today I am going to bench rest the Nelson there is something else going on here.  June I was putting 8 of 10 and even 9 of 10 in the black everyday.  July I only dry fired with out the trigger shoes and with the 9000SC.  Started this month with 6 of 10 in black and have dropped now to 2 to 4 in the black.  I do not score the targets.  On this target the first ring out side of the black is the 5 ring and I was keeping them all at least inside it.  I will say the black seams petty small on this target. Yesterday the shots were not hitting to call and even had shots off the paper.  I am not that good anymore but I am not this bad of shooter.

Time to test the gun the Nelson hasn't been field stripped since I bough her and she has 2160 rounds through her all being CCI SV.  Will post how the benchrest went.  Don

So you've not cleaned the barrel in 2160 rounds? My nelson get fairly dirty, I clean every 100-150 rounds, the breech face gets pretty dirty. I don't always use a brush, often just wet & dry patch it.

Come to think about it I have cleaned the breach face, pulled a VFG plug through the barrel when the gun gave me problems at a match where it didn't want to completely go into battery.  I just have not field stripped the gun and looked for leading.  Don

Just back from the indoor range.  As suspected it is me and not the gun.  If it had of been the gun that is fixable  not so sure about fixing me.  I had time to shoot a group with out the rest and it was way better then yesterday.  Not good but better.  I must remember that maybe reaching my goal of Master in one year might have been set a little high at my age.  maybe I should just try to reach that goal before I am to old to shoot.  Don

Don,

I am on the same path as you but have three thoughts to offer
1) don't be so hard on yourself, concentrate on what is going well
2) when you change equipment it takes time to adjust to it
3) set small goals.  Being master in 1 year is not an actionable goal.  Getting all shots on the target, all on the repair center, all in the black, etc. are more bite-sized and will give you positive reinforcement.

This game is not about "time in grade".  Best of luck, you can do it!

I wondered what unfulfilled dreams other people kept hidden inside themselves.
If only they'd realize that the first steps were the hardest, that even a dream only partially experienced is better than no dream at all.  For years I'd believed that a person with the right combination of interest and perserverence could invariably do one of two things: either achieve his or her dream, or have a wonderful time trying.  And sometimes the goal itself wasn't that important - it was the learning and the sense of personal satisfaction along the way that mattered the most.
Gerry Spiess
from Alone Against the Atlantic

Yeah, as a senior shooter, I am rediscovering what I learned sometime ago and forgot, relearned, and re-forgot, the great meandering circle. The single thing that seems to be helping me lately is taking my time (obviously not with rapid fire). Every time I'm at the range, my experience is different, especially how fast I am able to focus deeply. When I take time between shots in slow fire, I am doing better.

Then there's that discipline thing. After making maybe 1.5 brilliant shots, thinking I've got it, I decide to take charge, shoot at the pace that feels right, then jerk the trigger. Then I think, "I've seen that mistake before..." dipnet

Dipnet wrote:Yeah, as a senior shooter, I am rediscovering what I learned sometime ago and forgot, relearned, and re-forgot, the great meandering circle. The single thing that seems to be helping me lately is taking my time (obviously not with rapid fire). Every time I'm at the range, my experience is different, especially how fast I am able to focus deeply. When I take time between shots in slow fire, I am doing better.

Then there's that discipline thing. After making maybe 1.5 brilliant shots, thinking I've got it, I decide to take charge, shoot at the pace that feels right, then jerk the trigger. Then I think, "I've seen that mistake before..." dipnet

Gainesville, you are just down the road from me.  Slowing down does help a lot but here lately I think I may have found one of my big problems.  Taking time to think about the shot I just made and trying to figure out why it wasn't any where near where I called it I come to realize I am relaxing my grip as the trigger is breaking.  Contrasting on the trigger squeeze and forgetting the rest of the hand.  Seams I feel more comfortable when I have a loose grip but my groups really open up when I don't grip tight.  I think this loose grip comes from my two handed shooting where I am using about a 60/40 or even a 70/30 grip.  I shoot very well two handed but that doesn't help my  BE shooting much.  Started to get bored shooting two handed as I am not into action shooting as my reaction time has slowed way down as I get older.  Don

Yep, we shoot together at the Gateway Range (dipnet=Noel).

I wish I had started this when I was younger so that I could appreciate the waxing of decrepitude.

But what physical ability gives up, stubborn commitment more or less compensates. My progress is a slow upward curve with irregular dips and jumps. The current goal is master ranking. Goals and specific approaches are the difference between training and "practice" (latter is just making the same mistakes in and out of matches). The last match we co-attended, I muttered something about the gun shooting low (7-8 ring) and left and you responded "A craftsman does not blame his tools." That remark caused me to recheck my zero by benching the gun and damn, the gun was shooting low and left. I did drop my long line load from 4.80 to 4.50 grs (using a lab-grade scale), but that shouldn't make POI move that low and especially left. I'm shooting the Zero (Nosler) 185 JHP for the long line, a bullet that is more accurate when slightly zippy (~850 fps). It still isn't clear why the zero changed. I must have done something that I don't remember. I do have a gun notebook where I record most of my changes to any target gun.

I seem to be making mistakes that a long time pistol shooter shouldn't make, nonetheless, I make them. Maybe the wild élan of the late 60s is haunting me or perhaps I've entered the zone of sub-cognition. My shooting buddy and friend Jim recently looked at the test target and recipe supplied for his 45 rebuild by Joe Chambers and realized he wasn't using the load that yielded sub-inch groups at 50 yards. I'm not the only one challenged by age.

So, we stumble forward. In preparation for the Florida state match in October, I am making sure all the stuff is screwed down tight, batteries are fresh, and that training has specific goals. Finding a natural shot cadence is something that is helping a lot. I have a rapid fire mental chronometer where the bangs are nearly equally timed and shooting at that cadence yields high practice scores. However, No 100s with 45, yet. 

The little kid who couldn't sleep before pheasant hunts in western Kansas is still haunts, for shooting, fishing, hunting, especially the latter. Am trying Sleepytime Tea an hour before bed (but 1 cup makes me piss in the wee hours). Also trying irregular use of Melatonin to batten-down prematch excitement and maybe get some rest before a match. During the last Dixie match, I slept about 2-hrs before the day-long shoot (rimfire and all the EIS matches). I dunno if this is a good approach. ciao, dipent

I did go from Marksman to Master in one year, But it wasn't my first year shooting. Before going to NRA Bullseye I was shooting the Police L matches with Revolver and decided to try NRA Bullseye thinking the harder course would make me a better Police L shooter. I will always remember the first match I went to and seen the slow fire targets at 50 yards and thought what did I get myself into. But the guys were helpful, gave me instruction, I enjoyed shooting the match and got my temporary Marksman classification. Bullseye did make me a better Police L shooter, I was the top shooter in the league, in a season of 20 NMC type matches all at 25 yards at a bigger target and same target for all Slow, Timed and Rapid fire my Average was 299.7. But I was still a Bullseye Marksman! Being talked into going to Perry was the best thing I did, top shooters were willing to discuss my problem, give me good advise, one year later I was a Master! One thing I did was go to matches with one thought in mind, beat my previous match score and ignore the other scores. Later when my son Adam wanted to shoot I gave him the same advise.

Dipnet wrote:Yep, we shoot together at the Gateway Range (dipnet=Noel).

I wish I had started this when I was younger so that I could appreciate the waxing of decrepitude.

But what physical ability gives up, stubborn commitment more or less compensates. My progress is a slow upward curve with irregular dips and jumps. The current goal is master ranking. Goals and specific approaches are the difference between training and "practice" (latter is just making the same mistakes in and out of matches). The last match we co-attended, I muttered something about the gun shooting low (7-8 ring) and left and you responded "A craftsman does not blame his tools." That remark caused me to recheck my zero by benching the gun and damn, the gun was shooting low and left. I did drop my long line load from 4.80 to 4.50 grs (using a lab-grade scale), but that shouldn't make POI move that low and especially left. I'm shooting the Zero (Nosler) 185 JHP for the long line, a bullet that is more accurate when slightly zippy (~850 fps). It still isn't clear why the zero changed. I must have done something that I don't remember. I do have a gun notebook where I record most of my changes to any target gun.

I seem to be making mistakes that a long time pistol shooter shouldn't make, nonetheless, I make them. Maybe the wild élan of the late 60s is haunting me or perhaps I've entered the zone of sub-cognition. My shooting buddy and friend Jim recently looked at the test target and recipe supplied for his 45 rebuild by Joe Chambers and realized he wasn't using the load that yielded sub-inch groups at 50 yards. I'm not the only one challenged by age.

So, we stumble forward. In preparation for the Florida state match in October, I am making sure all the stuff is screwed down tight, batteries are fresh, and that training has specific goals. Finding a natural shot cadence is something that is helping a lot. I have a rapid fire mental chronometer where the bangs are nearly equally timed and shooting at that cadence yields high practice scores. However, No 100s with 45, yet. 

The little kid who couldn't sleep before pheasant hunts in western Kansas is still haunts, for shooting, fishing, hunting, especially the latter. Am trying Sleepytime Tea an hour before bed (but 1 cup makes me piss in the wee hours). Also trying irregular use of Melatonin to batten-down prematch excitement and maybe get some rest before a match. During the last Dixie match, I slept about 2-hrs before the day-long shoot (rimfire and all the EIS matches). I dunno if this is a good approach. ciao, dipent

Darn I liked pheasant hunting back when I was a kid in Iowa.  My dog and i went nearly every afternoon after school.  Back then we took our guns to school I kept mine in the Shop teachers office so i did't have to leave it in the car.  I haven't been out to Gateway to the matches for a couple of months it has been to hot for me.  Don

Froneck wrote:I did go from Marksman to Master in one year, But it wasn't my first year shooting. Before going to NRA Bullseye I was shooting the Police L matches with Revolver and decided to try NRA Bullseye thinking the harder course would make me a better Police L shooter. I will always remember the first match I went to and seen the slow fire targets at 50 yards and thought what did I get myself into. But the guys were helpful, gave me instruction, I enjoyed shooting the match and got my temporary Marksman classification. Bullseye did make me a better Police L shooter, I was the top shooter in the league, in a season of 20 NMC type matches all at 25 yards at a bigger target and same target for all Slow, Timed and Rapid fire my Average was 299.7. But I was still a Bullseye Marksman! Being talked into going to Perry was the best thing I did, top shooters were willing to discuss my problem, give me good advise, one year later I was a Master! One thing I did was go to matches with one thought in mind, beat my previous match score and ignore the other scores. Later when my son Adam wanted to shoot I gave him the same advise.

I qual'ed Expert with a 1911 that rattled even when in battery.  You could shake the barrel.  The Marine that issued 1911s to us Navy guys at NAS Gitmo gave us the worst ones.  We were not expected to live if the Cubans attacked just hold them off long enough for the Marine detachment to take over so why waste a good 1911.  Not having any handgun training shooting expert was a real accomplishment for me.   That was in the early 80s I can't even shoot my LB that well now.  Don

Magload wrote:.......think it started when I took off those petty trigger shoes or maybe when I took off the Matchdot II and put the AimPoint 9000sc on......

Just curious - can you put a Matchdot II back on the gun, and see if you revert to how you shot before?  Maybe your AimPoint has a problem, or weighs more?

mikemyers wrote:

Magload wrote:.......think it started when I took off those petty trigger shoes or maybe when I took off the Matchdot II and put the AimPoint 9000sc on......

Just curious - can you put a Matchdot II back on the gun, and see if you revert to how you shot before?  Maybe your AimPoint has a problem, or weighs more?

Good idea Mike but that is not the problem as I have 5 BE guns in 3 calibers 4 with Matchdot IIs and the Nelson with the Aimpoint and I have the same problem with all.  That is not counting a 22/45 Lite and a Mark III and a S&W Victory.  

I think the term Ragarm nails the problem.  I been working on that the last week and my groups have been better then ever.  By locking up my wrist, elbow, and shoulder I shoot good groups I just got to make it repeatable.  I know when a slack off as the shot is no where near call.  Fired 50 22LRs, 50 38 in the 52-2 and 50 in the LB 45 WC.  All shot better with some of the groupings being ragged holes but these were 20yds indoors.   I hope this locking up everything tight is right and I am not learning another bad practice.  You seldom see the arm mentioned on here they go into it some on the Army manual.  Don