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ruzneb
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mikemyers
24 posters
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Attempting to load for the S&W Model 52
by mikemyers Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:01 pm
First topic message reminder :
I am quoting an article by Gil Hebard on page 104 of The Pistol Shooter's Treasury.
"Many reloaders do such a poor job that their bullets are actually lobbed out of the barrel, thus many print broadside-on at 25 or 50 yards! If your bullets are doing this, you can bet your bottom dollar that your loads won't group better than perhaps 15" at 50 yards, even out of the finest gun. In just about every instance, this is the fault of the load, not the gun."
I did not do very well at my first target session with the S&W Model 52. I assumed all of my issues are due to my shooting, not to the gun... ...BUT... I am only a novice reloader. I thought I was doing a good job, following instructions, Magnus ##514 bullets, 148 grain, .357" diameter, over 2.8 grains of Bullseye. I showed one of my bullets to someone at the range who told me it was fine. I just took close-up photos. Is there anything obvious that I'm doing wrong, based on these photos? The second photo is a comparison over Winchester Factory ammo. Maybe I just don't know enough yet to realize what I might be doing wrong.
Larry Meyer at RCBS made me a seating die to properly seat the rounds. There is minimal crimp - maybe I need more? At first, I was "shaving" off lead, but adjusted the dies until that no longer happened. Based on how little I know about reloading, and how critical it apparently is for the Model 52, maybe my accuracy problem is my own fault. The first photo is of many rounds... I can't see anything wrong, but.....
Two of my rounds (left) compared with two Winchester 38 Special 148 grain "Super Match" factory loads:
I am quoting an article by Gil Hebard on page 104 of The Pistol Shooter's Treasury.
"Many reloaders do such a poor job that their bullets are actually lobbed out of the barrel, thus many print broadside-on at 25 or 50 yards! If your bullets are doing this, you can bet your bottom dollar that your loads won't group better than perhaps 15" at 50 yards, even out of the finest gun. In just about every instance, this is the fault of the load, not the gun."
I did not do very well at my first target session with the S&W Model 52. I assumed all of my issues are due to my shooting, not to the gun... ...BUT... I am only a novice reloader. I thought I was doing a good job, following instructions, Magnus ##514 bullets, 148 grain, .357" diameter, over 2.8 grains of Bullseye. I showed one of my bullets to someone at the range who told me it was fine. I just took close-up photos. Is there anything obvious that I'm doing wrong, based on these photos? The second photo is a comparison over Winchester Factory ammo. Maybe I just don't know enough yet to realize what I might be doing wrong.
Larry Meyer at RCBS made me a seating die to properly seat the rounds. There is minimal crimp - maybe I need more? At first, I was "shaving" off lead, but adjusted the dies until that no longer happened. Based on how little I know about reloading, and how critical it apparently is for the Model 52, maybe my accuracy problem is my own fault. The first photo is of many rounds... I can't see anything wrong, but.....
Two of my rounds (left) compared with two Winchester 38 Special 148 grain "Super Match" factory loads:
mikemyers- Posts : 4236
Join date : 2016-07-27
Age : 80
Location : South Florida, and India
Re: Attempting to load for the S&W Model 52
by mikemyers Mon May 07, 2018 12:45 pm
Yeah, the same year I buy my new Jaguar, I'll look into that! :-)
On the other hand, I will never buy or use any reloading gear with a primer tube down the front.
Hmm, I don't even want the "auto indexing" kit for my Pro 2000. The last thing I'm in, is a hurry. The most ammo I expect to make at one sitting is 200 rounds, more likely 100 for 45 and another 100 for 38 Special.
The most important thing I can spend more time on, is my trigger finger, none of the "hardware". But as long as I'm going to reload anyway, why not follow all the advice from you guys?
On the other hand, I will never buy or use any reloading gear with a primer tube down the front.
Hmm, I don't even want the "auto indexing" kit for my Pro 2000. The last thing I'm in, is a hurry. The most ammo I expect to make at one sitting is 200 rounds, more likely 100 for 45 and another 100 for 38 Special.
The most important thing I can spend more time on, is my trigger finger, none of the "hardware". But as long as I'm going to reload anyway, why not follow all the advice from you guys?
mikemyers- Posts : 4236
Join date : 2016-07-27
Age : 80
Location : South Florida, and India
Re: Attempting to load for the S&W Model 52
by Chris Miceli Mon May 07, 2018 2:11 pm
mikemyers wrote:Yeah, the same year I buy my new Jaguar, I'll look into that! :-)
On the other hand, I will never buy or use any reloading gear with a primer tube down the front.
Hmm, I don't even want the "auto indexing" kit for my Pro 2000. The last thing I'm in, is a hurry. The most ammo I expect to make at one sitting is 200 rounds, more likely 100 for 45 and another 100 for 38 Special.
The most important thing I can spend more time on, is my trigger finger, none of the "hardware". But as long as I'm going to reload anyway, why not follow all the advice from you guys?
For the dillon, the primers are in an aluminum tube that inside a steel tube.
Chris Miceli- Posts : 2715
Join date : 2015-10-27
Location : Northern Virginia
Re: Attempting to load for the S&W Model 52
by Aprilian Mon May 07, 2018 3:21 pm
I just bought one from Noe when I was buying the inserts.mikemyers wrote:I've never see a "Lee Universal Case Expander" - need to find it, and figure out how the plugs work in it. Is this what you guys use, or is there a better way to use the plugs?
Aprilian- Posts : 987
Join date : 2016-05-13
Location : Minnesota
Re: Attempting to load for the S&W Model 52
by mikemyers Mon May 07, 2018 4:24 pm
I asked Al Nelson at NOE, but he said he no longer has any in stock, and is not likely to get them in the future. If he had them, I'd buy from him.
Chris, I would prefer no tube at all, steel or aluminum or both. Eventually it will probably happen to me anyway, but it will only be a single primer.
Two times while learning how to use the press, a primer got tilted, and ended up squeezed into the case sideways. Seeing that was scary!
Chris, I would prefer no tube at all, steel or aluminum or both. Eventually it will probably happen to me anyway, but it will only be a single primer.
Two times while learning how to use the press, a primer got tilted, and ended up squeezed into the case sideways. Seeing that was scary!
mikemyers- Posts : 4236
Join date : 2016-07-27
Age : 80
Location : South Florida, and India
Re: Attempting to load for the S&W Model 52
by mikemyers Mon May 07, 2018 4:45 pm
Does the part from NOE drop right into this? Al said that a spacer might be needed??
I assume you continually adjust the setting on the top until you get the bell you want? Everything else is then set correctly?
I assume you continually adjust the setting on the top until you get the bell you want? Everything else is then set correctly?
mikemyers- Posts : 4236
Join date : 2016-07-27
Age : 80
Location : South Florida, and India
Re: Attempting to load for the S&W Model 52
by Aprilian Mon May 07, 2018 6:41 pm
mikemyers wrote:Does the part from NOE drop right into this? YES Al said that a spacer might be needed?? I use the ball point shaped expander (upper right) as my spacer
I assume you continually adjust the setting on the top until you get the bell you want? Everything else is then set correctly? I actually lock the screw top down into the die and then adjust die body height as the universal die body serves no function (to the outside of the case) in this operation
Aprilian- Posts : 987
Join date : 2016-05-13
Location : Minnesota
Re: Attempting to load for the S&W Model 52
by mikemyers Mon May 07, 2018 7:11 pm
Thanks!
Just thinking, either these are things that the majority of reloaders (other than here) are unaware of, or I've been very negligent about learning how to reload. I was told you buy a three-die set from whoever, probably whoever made your reloading press, and you're done.
It may or may not help my shooting, especially as I learn to keep my left hand in my pocket, but it's rewarding to me when I know I'm doing things properly.
Just thinking, either these are things that the majority of reloaders (other than here) are unaware of, or I've been very negligent about learning how to reload. I was told you buy a three-die set from whoever, probably whoever made your reloading press, and you're done.
It may or may not help my shooting, especially as I learn to keep my left hand in my pocket, but it's rewarding to me when I know I'm doing things properly.
mikemyers- Posts : 4236
Join date : 2016-07-27
Age : 80
Location : South Florida, and India
Re: Attempting to load for the S&W Model 52
by mikemyers Mon May 07, 2018 7:15 pm
Oh, and if I didn't already say something about it:
http://www.uniquetek.com/product/T1532
http://www.uniquetek.com/product/T1532
mikemyers- Posts : 4236
Join date : 2016-07-27
Age : 80
Location : South Florida, and India
Re: Attempting to load for the S&W Model 52
by fpk Tue May 08, 2018 6:28 am
Lee universal works just great with the NOE plugs. Otherwise they are available from everywhere as lee #90798, even amazon Lee Universal Expander Diemikemyers wrote:All this makes sense to me now, but I've never see a "Lee Universal Case Expander" - need to find it, and figure out how the plugs work in it. Is this what you guys use, or is there a better way to use the plugs?
fpk- Posts : 173
Join date : 2017-04-26
Location : Texas -
Re: Attempting to load for the S&W Model 52
by mikemyers Thu May 10, 2018 11:42 pm
I was reading this thread long ago, and it scared me to the point of going back to a single station press if I had to. I know about the steel tube, but that just means all the force of the explosion goes out the top and bottom. I don't want to argue about different presses, but I decided long ago that I would rather deal with loading plastic strips with primers - and this specific thread had a lot to do with it.Chris Miceli wrote:
...For the dillon, the primers are in an aluminum tube that inside a steel tube....
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/a-series-of-unfortunate-events-warning-graphic-very.776339/
I don't want to get into a discussion about what anyone else did do, or might do, but that's why I feel as I do. I prefer separate primers in the RCBS strips, for me.
Last edited by mikemyers on Fri May 11, 2018 2:02 am; edited 2 times in total
mikemyers- Posts : 4236
Join date : 2016-07-27
Age : 80
Location : South Florida, and India
Re: Attempting to load for the S&W Model 52
by LenV Fri May 11, 2018 12:09 am
What I like about my Lee.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/533868/lee-load-master-progressive-press-primer-explosion-deflector
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/533868/lee-load-master-progressive-press-primer-explosion-deflector
LenV- Posts : 4769
Join date : 2014-01-24
Age : 74
Location : Oregon
Re: Attempting to load for the S&W Model 52
by Chris Miceli Fri May 11, 2018 1:36 am
mikemyers wrote:I was reading this thread long ago, and it scared me to the point of going back to a single station press if I had to. I know about the steel tube, but that just means all the force of the explosion goes out the top and bottom. I don't want to argue about different presses, but I decided long ago that I would rather deal with loading plastic strips with primers - and this specific thread had a lot to do with it.Chris Miceli wrote:
...For the dillon, the primers are in an aluminum tube that inside a steel tube....
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/a-series-of-unfortunate-events-warning-graphic-very.776339/
I don't want to get into a discussion about what any else did do, or might do, but that's why I feel as I do. I prefer separate primers in the RCBS strips, for me.
Just read it, in no way was the fault of a properly maintained and operating priming system. Nothing wrong wiThbhans priming is that is how you want to do it. For anyone that uses a Dillon press, replace the plastic tip for the priming tube occasionally. Never remove the tube to replace it till all the primers are out and make sure the priming slide is back into the housing (press handle down) . The only reason to remove that tube is for changing from large to smal primers
Chris Miceli- Posts : 2715
Join date : 2015-10-27
Location : Northern Virginia
Re: Attempting to load for the S&W Model 52
by mikemyers Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:03 am
I have been using:
Magnus ##514 bullets, 148 grain, .357" diameter, over 2.7 grains of Bullseye.
If I switch to Clays, rather than Bullseye, can anyone here suggest what would be the recommended powder load for 25 yards?
Magnus ##514 bullets, 148 grain, .357" diameter, over 2.7 grains of Bullseye.
If I switch to Clays, rather than Bullseye, can anyone here suggest what would be the recommended powder load for 25 yards?
mikemyers- Posts : 4236
Join date : 2016-07-27
Age : 80
Location : South Florida, and India
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