Dillon powder funnel for .32ACP

First topic message reminder :

In another thread, there was discussion of using a powder funnel designed for .308 rifle to reload .32ACP.  I offered to work with the maker of that funnel and offer feedback on how it might be adapted for .32ACP.  For folks who are reloading .32ACP, this might be helpful because:

• It is a "stepped" expander which provides superior bullet placement over the simple flare of a stock Dillon "S" funnel
  
• A number of folks who reload this cartridge are using a Lyman M expander. That consumes a station and means the Dillon powder funnel is adjusted for zero flare.
  
• Others who load this cartridge do NOT use a Lyman M expander because they don't have a spare station.
  

A member of this forum sells stepped powder funnels for traditional pistol calibers.  (e.g. 9mm, .45ACP) (aka Mr. Bulletfeeder funnels).  He also sells stepped powder funnels for .308 rifle.  I volunteered to work with the maker of the rifle funnel to experiment with using it for .32ACP.  More specifically, I load Hornady 60gr XTP JHP (.311").  The maker has been asked for an update.  Hence this post.  This is a work in progress...

When you buy the funnel it comes with funnel, a "cowl" and three spacers.  One option for the funnel is a .3125" expander version. With this .3125" version of the funnel, you can get a working powder funnel that will provide two step expansion.  This requires the funnel, spacer .75" and spacer .625".  The second stage expansion (.3125") is a bit snug compared to the Lyman M expander.  The alignment of the case with the funnel tip can also be a bit finicky.

The "cowl" was designed to align rifle brass with the funnel tip. The rifle cowl won't work with pistol cases.  He has made a modification to the cowl so it will function but it still doesn't quite resolve the case and funnel tip alignment. A refinement of the funnel tip is planned.  A refinement of the cowl is planned.  These are intended to improve the alignment.

He is also making funnels with larger second step expander dimension.  We think a couple thousandths will go from snug to ideal. Again, I am only testing with .311" JHP bullets.
Glen

I'll test the .3175 with the .314 T&B 32 ACP bullets as soon as I received it. I switched back to the Dillon powder die yesterday and loaded a hundred rounds with TB bullets.  I don't have a lot of problems getting the bullet to stand straight when loading it, but the two step funnel is definitely more precise and consistent. I am using a +.003 Lee sizing die so this might help.  The only persistent issue is every 10th round or so one does want to go it, takes some time to wiggle it in.  Hoping the larger funnel corrects help.

Expanding the topic slightly to Mr. Bulletfeeder for .32acp.  Technically, that caliber is not offered.

A key driver for my stepped-funnel need was the use of a Mr. Bulletfeeder "Mini".  For that, some time ago I created an insert made from a .32acp case which adapted a 9mm bullet feeder die for use with the .311" .32acp bullet.  With introduction to Rick Koskela (Mr. Bulletfeeder inventor) by the forum member making the funnels, I asked about adaptation of the .308 rifle collator plate and die to potentially use a full blown Mr. Bulletfeeder.

Yesterday, I received working collator plate and dropper assembly (die, dropper, clear tube, switch) from Mr Koskela.  Let me briefly summarize.  If anyone is interested in more details, ask and I'll elaborate.
Mr. Bulletfeeder - Mini.  You can create your own in two ways:

1) Buy a 9mm dropper die and a .308 rifle "6-tube magazine".  Since the .32acp brass won't engage the 9mm dropper, you can create an insert using a .32acp shell casing.  (Details available.)

2) Buy a .308 Mini kit and modify the dropper.  Because this dropper is designed for rifle brass, two things need to be altered:
    a) Cut the bottom off the dropper so the brass can reach the bevel for case engagement.
    b) Get the case mouth close enough to the bullet to be dropped so that only one bullet will be dropped.  This involved using a case camfer tool to deepen the bevel.  (Again, details available.)

For a full Mr. Bulletfeeder, we were hoping that a thinner version of the .308 rifle collator plate might work.  In short, that doesn't work.  The .32acp bullets are so short that they will lay horizontally in the bullet slots.  The collator won't work unless the bullets arrive at the nose guide vertically.  Rick created a custom collator plate with the slots closer to the outer edge and hence shorter.  That works.

The net of this is that although we know a collator plate for .32acp bullets is feasible,  it doesn't appear that a simple DIY alteration of an existing production collator plate is likely.  Simple alterations of either 9mm or .308 bullet droppers work.

Glen

When will the expanders be ready for purchase?   I am ready to set up my Dillon 550 to load 32acp with the 60 gain XTP.   I will be happy when I do not have to buy factory ammo....

Thank to everyone involved in doing all the work and testing so others my benefit!!!!

Provided everything goes fine, - two weeks.
AP

PhotoEscape wrote:Provided everything goes fine, - two weeks.
AP

Thanks!

Jim

I am also very interested in the modified powder funnel, I'm reloading Hornady JHP on my 650 and I stopped loading due to the high failure rate.

Greetings Scootso,

You have my attention.

What do you mean by "high failure rate"?

Cheers,

Dave

I'm having great success reloading on an XL650 so I'm willing to help if you can describe the problems.  First and foremost is recognizing that the .32acp is at the limits of precision for the press.  For .45acp, you can "yank and crank".  The .32acp requires a finer touch and visual attention.  Generally if the cases tilt in the shellplate, you can potentially get crushed cases in the sizer or expander.  You can also get bulges or damaged cases in the seating die if the bullets don't get placed vertically and concentrically.

The 2-step expander from PhotoEscape and a Mr. Bulletfeeder (mini or full) together completely resolve the bullet seating.  Misalignment at the sizing die can be felt & seen if you pay attention.  Much more rarely with the funnel/expander (.3155"), the funnel nose doesn't drop into the tilted case properly. Currently, I watch to be sure the funnel and case are aligned.  I'm hoping the "cowl" that PhotoEscape sends me when they are ready will guide the case back to vertical and hence assure that the funnel doesn't hang on the edge of the case.  I'll give a detailed report when I have the cowl and have tested it.

I've loaded 700 rounds with the "prototype" funnel.  My "failure rate" was under 1% and they were all in the first 200 rounds processed.  The finished ammo is superior to what I was getting when I was flaring (i.e. stock Dillon funnel) and hand placing bullets.  Slightly or badly tipped bullets entering the seating die are a thing of the past.  I gauge all rounds and 100% pass.  So, if I get a case past the sizing and powder drop (with the PhotoEscape 2-step expander) stations, I get 100% yield.
Glen

Greeting Dave & Glen
The failure rate I was referring to the bullet head misalignment and getting crushed when I tried to seat it.
I haven't been using an expanding die, till recently there hasn't been a lot of info about reloading 32acp and I didn't realize how important they are. I am excited about using a Mr Bullfeeder and solving my loading issues


Scott

Is the modified powder funnel available yet?

Scott

I got an email from Alex (PhoteEscape) Monday, apparently they are getting polished.

Thank you Greg

Quick update on production schedule!  Although I still want to use word "tentative", I expect expanders in three sizes - .3155", .3165" & .3175" and 32ACP Cowl out of polishing on July 31st.  QC will be completed in the two following days.  So as it looks now August 3rd is ready to go day.  I will immediately ship production expanders and cowl to my testers, Glen and Greg.  Please note, that expanders in .3145" size already available.  I presume, that between these four sizes, entire range of projectiles being used for 32ACP and 32Long will be covered.  Thank you, AP

PhotoEscape wrote:Quick update on production schedule!  Although I still want to use word "tentative", I expect expanders in three sizes - .3155", .3165" & .3175" and 32ACP Cowl out of polishing on July 31st.  QC will be completed in the two following days.  So as it looks now August 3rd is ready to go day.  I will immediately ship production expanders and cowl to my testers, Glen and Greg.  Please note, that expanders in .3145" size already available.  I presume, that between these four sizes, entire range of projectiles being used for 32ACP and 32Long will be covered.  Thank you, AP

Are you taking pre-orders? I'm planning to load 32ACP with the T&B bullets - I guess I need a .3155 expander and a cowl, correct?

Javaduke,
I appreciate your readiness to send me money.  However there is no real need for such, unless you insist.  Once I have expanders and cowls after QC, I'll post on this forum readiness to ship. 
As for expander size for your particular need.  One of the testers, Greg Benner tested T&B using .3165" expander.  He fills (Greg, please chime in!!) that .3175" would work better.  Originally I planned on manufacturing .3145", .3155" & .3165".  However based on Dr. Don's input and Greg's testing I added .3175".  I suggest you starting from this, and if you find that smaller (.001" less) would work better for you, I'll be happy to exchange for .3165" (or any available size).  I also want to point out that T&B bullets can be sizes in .313" and .314".  If you are using both, then you might need to figure out if one expander would work for both.  Regards, AP

Guess I'll start with .314" bullets and .3175" expander  I'm completely new to the 32ACP caliber, and it looks like it's much more demanding than .45 and .38 special.

JD, I will post again as soon as I get the .3175 for testing.  However, you might want to look at my previous comments.

To summarize, I load .314 S&W long Wadcutters  (H&N copies) in Lapua brass, as well as .314 32ACP T&B in Starline brass.  I Found the .3165 perfect for the wadcutters but rather "fiddler" with the T&B.  I suspect it is due to the very short profile of the ACP..  I did suggest to AP that I thought .3175 might work better/easier. 

FWIW, I use a Dillon 550 with oversize Lee resizing dies in stage one.  And yes, your conclusion about loading 32 ACP compared to other calibers is very correct:affraid:.  They sure are fun to shoot though.....

Unfortunately I must report a slight set back.  As you can see from the above images, polisher didn't do a good job.  Over 1000 parts are being shipped back for re-polishing.  Very SAD!!
AP

That’s unfortunate, but I will happily wait for a solution.

Scott

scootso wrote:That’s unfortunate, but I will happily wait for a solution.

Scott

Same here!

Jim

For those of us that do not have a Dillon press and load .32 S&W-L, we'd really appreciate an M-die with the right dimensions to ease seating of those .314" HBWC.

NuJudge,
Firstly - proper expander size for .314" HBWC is .3175"
Secondly - you just gave me idea, that I will try to convert into solution, provided there is enough interests.  That is adopting my expanders for usage on non-Dillon pressed, and provide for powder drop through it.
Would appreciate feedback from interested folks.

Everyone,
Expanders and cowls came back from second round of polishing, and being run through QC.  I already know that fall out is quite significant in .3175", but I still will have about 40-50 units in this size.  Will be ready to start shipping next week, closer to the end of it.
I will post update with pictures early next week.

Regards,
AP

AP
I load the .311 Hornady, which expander and cowl should I buy? Will you be selling them in full sets? 

Scott

Scott,
Glen tested loading .311 Hornady's using .3155 expander.  I think, .3145 will work fine as well.  However I'll happily exchange expanders based on your own needs.  Set will include expander in the size of your choice, cowl and three spacers.  I will have expanders available in .3125" & .3145" (same are used for loading 30 Caliber rifle cartridges, like 308, 300BO, 7.62x39, etc.), and specific to 32ACP and 32S&W-L in .3155", 3165" & .3175".  I'll be happy to sell expanders separately, or for that matter any part of the set.  However please keep in mind that this is the most expensive part of the set, - break down is as follow: expander is $32, cowl is $10, spacers are $2 each.  There is no difference in cowls between 32ACP and 32S&W.
Thank you,
AP