How to seat, crimp, without shaving lead on 45 ACP #801 Magnus bullets

First topic message reminder :

Between Terry Labbe and Dave Salyer, and all their advice, plus what I've learned here, my 45 ACP reloads are working fine.  No problems.   But I'm doing the last station, crimping, on my single station press.  My RCBS Pro2000 only has five stations, and one I insist on using for the RCBS Lock-Out Die.  Dave tells me that for 45 ACP, there's no need to separate the seating and crimping stations, both can be done in one station.  Terry told me about something he thought was a "Cowboy Die", that didn't do much crimping until the bullet was pretty much seated, and then it came in with the crimp.  Any ideas what kind of die this is, and where to get one?  Are all taper dies the same, or is what I'm trying to describe something that's readily available?

Station #1 is resize, deprime.
Station #2 is reprime, expand, and bell
Station #3 is powder drop
Station #4 is Lock-Out Die
Station #5 needs to be seat and crimp.


I'm wondering if I can take the seater "plug" I made, and install it in a seater/crimper die - it may not be the "best" technique, but I think it should "work".  
Maybe I can buy something that would work better??

Maybe I can use my 45ACP seating stem I just made, but put it in a crimper die that is larger than 45 ACP?

I just read this long article:
https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/reloading-crimp-not-crimp-question/
For 45 ACP, why do I need to crimp any more than to just take out the bell?


Finally, which seater / taper-crimp dies are the better choices? 
I assume it should be carbide?

Until I got into this "bullseye" nonsense, I loaded only revolver ammo, and 9mm for a sloppy HP, and seated and crimped in the same operation.

Standard roll crimp dies, cannelured jacketed bullets, and/or cast bullets with actual crimp grooves.

Progressive, Hornady, only recently. Single stage, didn't take me too long to figure out I needed to short seat cast bullets, and scrape/clean them and the die, before final seating to depth, and then a 3rd step to crimp.

My original seating die is used for crimping, after the Redding comp seater. The scraping of lead, but mostly lube, has not been a problem since I started expanding the cases more.

Bad habits, maybe, coming from rifle shooting, trying to minimize the working of brass. Much more of which, pistol, seems to vanish into the ozone layer than .223 ever did.

You lost me there....    what is "short seating"?    ....and scrape/clean them and the die?????

The more I learn here, the more I find out that I don't understand.

I had a problem, not flaring the cases enough, where lube would get scraped off and collect in the seating die and progressively seat the bullets deeper.

Modified, homemade seating stem that bears on the shoulder of a SWC.

So I'd back it off .030, seat and clean a block of rds, and then clean the die out and reset and seat at 'zero' before crimping as a 3rd step.

Putting a much larger flare on the case got rid of the smeared lube, and clogging up seating die

......makes sense, but isn't that bad for the brass?  How much can you do this before the brass cracks?

Thanks - now I understand what you meant.

Mike,
I also like to run a lock out die in my 5 station press and I like to seat and crimp in separate dies.   To free up another station I de-prime and size my brass before I clean it.  An extra benefit in doing it this way is I can spray a lubricant on the brass before sizing.  This makes it much easier on my aging joints when operating the press.  I can de-prime and size 20 a minute on my 5 station press so it dosent take long to get this done. 
DJW1CAV

Thanks, but on my press, RCBS Pro2000, unless I completely change around the design, with a "powder thru expander", the powder drop is stuck at station #3, where it is attached to the frame of the press, not the slide-out die holder.  That leaves only two stations, one of which is now the Lock-Out Die.  

I have two options, move the powder drop, or stop using the Lock-Out die.  

I like your idea of depriving and resizing the brass before I clean it - that would hopefully result in the primer pocket getting cleaned.  Yes, my joints don't ache too much too often, but the press would certainly be easier to use.  I think I will try your idea, even if it doesn't solve the original goal.  Thanks!!

mikemyers wrote:Thanks, but on my press, RCBS Pro2000, unless I completely change around the design, with a "powder thru expander", the powder drop is stuck at station #3, where it is attached to the frame of the press, not the slide-out die holder.  That leaves only two stations, one of which is now the Lock-Out Die.  

I have two options, move the powder drop, or stop using the Lock-Out die.  

I like your idea of depriving and resizing the brass before I clean it - that would hopefully result in the primer pocket getting cleaned.  Yes, my joints don't ache too much too often, but the press would certainly be easier to use.  I think I will try your idea, even if it doesn't solve the original goal.  Thanks!!

Mike,
I googled the RCBS Pro2000 now understand why it is awkward to move the powder drop to a removable die holder. 

Regarding clean primer pockets.  I wet tumble with SS pins and the primer pockets come out clean and shiny.  I am not sure if the primer pockets really need to be cleaned but they look good!
DJW1CAV

When I seat primers in the press, I use "pressure" to tell me how far to go, not a hard stop.  I'd like to "feel" them going into place.  For every 10 or 15 primers that feel like a "kerplunk", I get one that goes in with no sensation of it hitting home.  Makes me think that those pockets have gotten dirt in them.  Dave Salyer suggested that if I get a failure-to-fire it is most likely due to a high primer.  

If I'm right, I have two options - buy a good hand primer, and "finish the job" that wasn't done by my press, or clean out the primer pockets.  I have a dry tumbler though, not a wet tumbler with SS pins.  I guess I'll just try it, and see how well it works.

If it wasn't for the primer tube I'd like to avoid, I'd have already bought the 7-station RCBS press.  That's always an option.

Ouch!!!!!   Delete the last line that I wrote in my previous response - I finally took the time to look for reviews of this 7-station RCBS Press, and I wouldn't accept it even if it was offered to me for free.  Judge for yourself:
https://www.amazon.com/RCBS-88911-Progressive-Press-Chucker/product-reviews/B00VKPX4PW/ref=cm_cr_dp_d_show_all_btm?ie=UTF8&reviewerType=all_reviews

If I was smarter, I'd probably buy the Star press for sale in the Commercial forum as of last night.  If I ever give up on the Pro2000, that would probably be a good choice.  In the meantime, I'm pretty satisfied with the Pro2000, and when I do need something, RCBS sends it out for free.  It only has one annoyance, when the shell plate indexes into position, some of the powder in the case can fly out.  Just a few specs of powder, but they add up.  At least the whole thing is made from steel, not plastic or aluminum.  

For only $22 I may try the die I posted about earlier.  It may not be "perfection", but with the tiny amount of crimp I'm using (barely visible) it might work well enough.  That's what I did in all the years I used a manual press, and I wasn't aware of any problems.  (Maybe I didn't know enough to realize they were problems.)