Nelson Conversion Kit

by mikemyers Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:35 pm

First topic message reminder :

(Photo updated July 23, 2019 with Baer lower)

After a lot of thought and browsing, I ordered a Nelson Conversion Kit several months ago, not expecting it to arrive until September, but it showed up several weeks ago. I left it sitting in the box until I had some free time.

I installed it this afternoon on my Salyer Caspian, after watching a few videos of how these kits work. Everything went so smoothly, I was amazed. It's now on the gun, but I will wait until Monday to call the people at Nelson, and ask a few questions.

Anyone here have any advice or suggestions to get the most out of these kits?

One of the videos showed a fellow installing a Marvel conversion, and then he squeezed out what looks like Wilson grease all over the kit - it reminded me of dispensing ketchup onto a hamburger. I'm sure that is wrong, but that leads to a question - is there a guide I haven't found yet that recommends what to do regarding lubrication?

Next, since it's a 22, I assume dry-firing is out unless I find some dummy rounds so the gun won't be damaged. Is this correct?

Is CCI Standard Velocity ammo best for it?

I bought it with a rail, and I think a light-weight sight would be best for me, but my Aimpoint Micro has a Kodiak mount that won't fit onto the rail. I think I'll buy the standard Aimpoint mount, which should work fine. In the meantime, I mounted my Matchdot II (which I bought through this forum). Any recommendations for which sights work best? I found a discussion about using it with an Aimpoint 9000sc. I could put that on as well. Is that overkill?

Not sure what I was expecting, but the Nelson Conversion Kit is just plain beautiful. It looks well made, it seems to be easy to use, and it was effortless to install. It's everything I expected, and a lot more. I was on the phone for well over an hour discussing the kit with the people at Nelson before I bought it, and it seems to me it was worth the long wait. I had looked at the other sources of conversion kits, and I kept coming back to the Nelson. I guess my "test" of it, will be how it shoots for me compared to my Model 41. One nice thing is it "feels" the same as the 45 Springfield I'm now using. My hands go to the same positions, and the weight feels very similar, maybe a little heavier probably due to the sight (the 45 has an Ultradot L/T which feels like it weighs nothing...)

My next match is in two weeks. I was planning on using my Model 41, but it had so many "issues" I was thinking of using a revolver. I think I solved the issues, but if I get used to the Nelson, that's another option.

by adminbot1911 Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:05 pm

LenV wrote:Its sad Mike. It looks like you have it all figured out... And still have an ugly hammer.

I just watched Forrect Gump again this week and all I could think was "ugly is as ugly does"! Laughing

If it's ugly and it functions, it's beautiful to me.

Mike, you're welcome to buy the Nelson barrel weight and see if it works for you. It might. New optic, too. If you have the money, buy everything, arrange it in every manner imaginable and figure out what works best for you over the course of tens or hundreds of thousands of rounds and sell the extras, I've done that once or twice... or three or 10 times already. Shoot a 900/900 and watch everyone copy your setup. But you asked the field what our thoughts on weights and I responded. I think you have 295 score equipment already. But if you're on the line wondering if the barrel weight you didn't buy would have helped tamp down your wobble instead of focusing on sight picture then you're not going to perform well. So get it and try it and let us know what it did for you.

by 1joel1 Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:10 pm

lablover wrote:
Wobbley wrote:
1joel1 wrote:That is really weird. I have never removed the pin, but I do file one of the lips when I get a new GSG magazine and then there are no problems. It takes 30 seconds and the mags work perfectly.

If you “file one of the lips”, which one and from what configuration to which configuration? What needs to be altered? How much? What does it look like when it’s done? Just saying “file one of the lips” is way too vague.
I was wondering the same thing

I'll try to get a picture posted this week. I am sorry about the vagueness, but I thought this was a common practice.

Joel

by james r chapman Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:30 pm

Make sure you buy BOTH barrel weights from Larry Nelson, aluminum and steel.

by Jon Eulette Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:23 pm

jglenn21 wrote:1st thing is using a 17-19 lb mainspring..19 will work in both the 22 and 45.. i run an 8lb recoil spring in ny nelson. 9lb is almost always too strong for std. Velocity ammo

+1
19# is typically the lowest I will go on conversions. Had light strikes on 17# springs especially in Kart conversions. 8# has been best weight for me in both Marvel and Nelson conversions; from Tenex to Aguila.
Jon

by mikemyers Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:13 pm

Dave tells me my Caspian has a Colt 20# mainspring.

by mikemyers Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:40 pm

Yeah, I know..... what's your advice?

Get the hammer I was about to buy, and take everything to my gunsmith?
Get a spray can of black paint?
Use a big black magic marker?
Buy the new hammer and try to install it myself?
Buy a different hammer that will fit onto my gun without too much work?
Let my gunsmith select a hammer he prefers?

by 1joel1 Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:02 am

Here's a pic of my magazine.

by adminbot1911 Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:27 pm

mikemyers wrote:

Get the hammer I was about to buy, and take everything to my gunsmith

Or

Let my gunsmith select a hammer he prefers

by mikemyers Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:44 pm

I've decided. I need to work on my shooting, much more than the gun. The gun now works, Nelson+Caspian. I dry fire with the magazine full of lead that Dave sent me. Things are working well, to the point this now feels like the gun I most enjoy shooting. With Eley, no misfires, no malfunctions, no problems.

My solution - if I ever see LenV coming towards me, I'll hide the hammer so his BP doesn't go up. For anyone else, it is what it is.

At some point, if I feel I'm good enough, maybe I'll just buy a new lower from Dave, Jon, or KC. Or maybe something fantastic will show up in the Commercial forum.

I can sit for much of an evening, with some movie playing on my TV, and for 45 minutes spend 60 seconds with gun in my lap, then 45 seconds holding gun with lead magazine up, dry-firing. Eventually I'll get to the point where when I hear the "click", the dot won't move at all. Now it's 1/3 of the time if I'm being honest. After half an hour, I continue, but without the lead magazine. As guns did long all, at that point the Nelson+1911 feels like a plastic toy.

My new Eley ammo arrives this weekend. I'm going to stop working on anything, except on me.

by lablover Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:50 pm

1joel1 wrote:Here's a pic of my magazine.

Thanks for the pic. What is that supposed to eliminate? I bet it’s somewhere in this post..haha

by james r chapman Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:38 pm

On the previous 7 pages

by mikemyers Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:36 pm

lablover wrote:Thanks for the pic. What is that supposed to eliminate? I bet it’s somewhere in this post..haha

Maybe I should make an index for this post?
You did get me interested, enough so to find this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXTQMtUALv0

It's actually an interesting video, and shows a way to disassemble and re-assemble that's much easier than what Larry described to me. I knew some of the tricks, but NOT the handy one of holding the spring in place while you assemble the bottom of the magazine.

I bought two magazines from Midway; they are on their way back. I probably could have fixed them, or adjusted them, or posted here as to what was going wrong and asked for suggestions, but it was starting to feel like my Model 52 repair, where noting fixed the problem for three weeks or so. I expected I would drop the Nelson on my 1911 lower, and it would just work. If I didn't have bad ammo, it probably would have. :-)

As a learning experience though, this thread has been very educational to me, like many threads in this forum.

by lablover Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:47 pm

Thanks for the link Mike...not on topic but I like those base pads to add a little weight.

by kczerwin Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:10 am

Talked to the Nelson’s at Perry and the new CCI standard velocity ammunition is a problem. Give them a call. They are great people.

by apipeguy Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:52 am

kczerwin wrote:Talked to the Nelson’s at Perry and the new CCI standard velocity ammunition is a problem. Give them a call. They are great people.

I’ve always used SV in both of mine but have some old stock still. What is Larry recommending now?

by mikemyers Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:04 am

If you belong to a group that is affiliated with the Civilian Marksmanship Program, this is what someone here recommended I consider. I hope it was a good decision, as I'll have 5,000 rounds arriving tomorrow: https://estore.thecmp.org/Catalog/Item/4C22ELYSTD-5000 You are limited to only two cases a year.

If you live someplace that hasn't been affected yet with ultra-high temperatures, the currently available CCI might still be fine. When the temperature in Florida was in the 80's, I had no problem with CCI SV. When the temperature got up to 95, the CCI stopped functioning, and the Eley felt like someone had sprayed it with a lubricant - but it was still reliable, no issues.

I used to buy CCI SV in black boxes of 50. The newer ammo came in blue boxes of 50. When I called many months ago about this, I was told the ammo was the same, just the box changed. I don't remember ever having problems with CCI in the black boxes. I'm only talking about reliability.

by mikemyers Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:33 am

This post from the S&W forum might be an explanation for the misfeeds from CCI in hot weather:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/140505376-post69.html

by mustachio Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:51 am

I don't want to sound unappreciative of the several good conversion units that are sold today, but I have a simple question. Why, with all of the tested and proven designs of dedicated 22LR pistols that are on the market (Ruger MK series, S&W 41, Volquartsen, High Standard etc.) would you want to take a chance on an expensive conversion? I have read many of the issues that go along with owning a conversion and don't know if I would want to spend my money on an item that may or may not function perfectly out of the box. I never had an issue with my Ruger MkII Government (with the standard or Volquartsen LLV-6 barrel, and I realize that the Volquartsen is somewhat of a conversion unit) or my model 41. Shooting a match and then having a gun related alibi is frustrating. Now, alibis with ammo, that is not necessarily the guns fault (good strike, but round not going off).

by zanemoseley Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:35 am

mustachio wrote:I don't want to sound unappreciative of the several good conversion units that are sold today, but I have a simple question. Why, with all of the tested and proven designs of dedicated 22LR pistols that are on the market (Ruger MK series, S&W 41, Volquartsen, High Standard etc.) would you want to take a chance on an expensive conversion? I have read many of the issues that go along with owning a conversion and don't know if I would want to spend my money on an item that may or may not function perfectly out of the box. I never had an issue with my Ruger MkII Government (with the standard or Volquartsen LLV-6 barrel, and I realize that the Volquartsen is somewhat of a conversion unit) or my model 41. Shooting a match and then having a gun related alibi is frustrating. Now, alibis with ammo, that is not necessarily the guns fault (good strike, but round not going off).

The answer is simple. It allows a near 100% replica of your 45 chambered in 22. Same grip, trigger, balance and overall weight.

by **Wobbley** Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:44 am

The Question is still valid tho. I’m an engineer by training, mechanical misfunction is relatively easy for me to solve. But these conversions require too much fiddling to make work. For the same money you can get a decent Browning Buckmark or Ruger and for double that you get a decent S&W or High Standard. So where is the draw?

by james r chapman Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:50 am

To be a contrarian, most have no issue, or less, with the conversions.

by DA/SA Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:01 pm

As with the internet and guns, we mainly only hear from the ones that have malfunctions.

I bought a Marvel and all it does is run, right out of the box, with any ammo I have tried. It does have a couple of minor quirks, but having worked with mechanical things all of my life, it took no time at all to discover the remedy.

As for accuracy, mine was X ring at 50 right out of the box rested. I wish I could say that I was X ring at 50 standing...

by zanemoseley Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:07 pm

Believe me I've had my fair share of issues with the conversions and then some. My Marvel on a 22 lower by Jon has been shipped out 4 times now to 3 different people. I think a lot of the issues come from us trying to run them on reduced spring power lowers to get the trigger weight down, it makes them too finicky. But when they're running right they are a thing of beauty. I personally would like to see a redesigned firing pin that has a smaller yet stronger/deeper strike area (smaller footprint). The majority of my issues have been light strikes, that and lead shaving.

by Tim:H11 Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:21 pm

Wobbley wrote:The Question is still valid tho. I’m an engineer by training, mechanical misfunction is relatively easy for me to solve. But these conversions require too much fiddling to make work. For the same money you can get a decent Browning Buckmark or Ruger and for double that you get a decent S&W or High Standard. So where is the draw?

Your buckmark or Ruger won’t shoot as well. Entry level at best. I wouldn’t have a S&W Victory as a gift. Highstandards shoot alright. The nice thing about the Nelson is that it helps the shooter focus on the 1911 platform and the way that trigger design needs to be manipulated. It helps in training and learning for the 45 game. Ultimately your overall agg score should go up so long as you’re learning what works and doesn’t work for stance and grip with the 45. You need to have a stance that allows you to recover quickly and get back on target. This allows more time for the shot during rapid fire. Shooting a conversion for 22 keeps you familiar with the feel, the weight of the gun, and trigger control to a certain degree. They are not usually this complicated to get to work. I wouldn’t part with mine for love nor money. Some people will argue they aren’t accurate enough but I disagree. A re-lined “anything” might mechanically shoot tighter groups from the testing machine but if the shooter doesn’t have the ability or training then the shooter isn’t going to see a difference in scores or groups. Ease of use..? Perhaps buying a dedicated and “purpose” built 22 rather than come up with a conversion rig would be easier. But you don’t gain the training advantages to having a conversion.

by Sa-tevp Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:45 pm

Wobbley wrote:The Question is still valid tho. I’m an engineer by training, mechanical misfunction is relatively easy for me to solve. But these conversions require too much fiddling to make work. For the same money you can get a decent Browning Buckmark or Ruger and for double that you get a decent S&W or High Standard. So where is the draw?

james r chapmanTo be a contrarian, most have no issue, or less, with the conversions.

I had two Nelson Conversions and both ran with no problems on Colt, Springfield and a dedicated Palmetto State Armory frames. All had 19# Mainsprings and I used NCG magazines. The barrels have been recrowned. CCI SV or RWS Target Rifle is about as low in the 22 food chain that I go. When the combo ribs came out I sold one of my conversions.

What I like about the Nelson conversions is safe dry fire, the weight and balance matches my wad gun, and how easy it is to change springs to match ammunition. Playing with spring rate on my Ruger MkIII is very difficult. A S&W M41 has an easy to access mainspring but I don't get along well with the trigger shape.

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