Nelson Conversion Kit

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(Photo updated July 23, 2019 with Baer lower)


After a lot of thought and browsing, I ordered a Nelson Conversion Kit several months ago, not expecting it to arrive until September, but it showed up several weeks ago.  I left it sitting in the box until I had some free time.

I installed it this afternoon on my Salyer Caspian, after watching a few videos of how these kits work.  Everything went so smoothly, I was amazed.  It's now on the gun, but I will wait until Monday to call the people at Nelson, and ask a few questions.

Anyone here have any advice or suggestions to get the most out of these kits?

One of the videos showed a fellow installing a Marvel conversion, and then he squeezed out what looks like Wilson grease all over the kit - it reminded me of dispensing ketchup onto a hamburger.  I'm sure that is wrong, but that leads to a question - is there a guide I haven't found yet that recommends what to do regarding lubrication?

Next, since it's a 22, I assume dry-firing is out unless I find some dummy rounds so the gun won't be damaged.  Is this correct?

Is CCI Standard Velocity ammo best for it?

I bought it with a rail, and I think a light-weight sight would be best for me, but my Aimpoint Micro has a Kodiak mount that won't fit onto the rail.  I think I'll buy the standard Aimpoint mount, which should work fine.  In the meantime, I mounted my Matchdot II (which I bought through this forum). Any recommendations for which sights work best?  I found a discussion about using it with an Aimpoint 9000sc.  I could put that on as well.  Is that overkill?

Not sure what I was expecting, but the Nelson Conversion Kit is just plain beautiful.  It looks well made, it seems to be easy to use, and it was effortless to install.  It's everything I expected, and a lot more.  I was on the phone for well over an hour discussing the kit with the people at Nelson before I bought it, and it seems to me it was worth the long wait.  I had looked at the other sources of conversion kits, and I kept coming back to the Nelson.  I guess my "test" of it, will be how it shoots for me compared to my Model 41.  One nice thing is it "feels" the same as the 45 Springfield I'm now using.  My hands go to the same positions, and the weight feels very similar, maybe a little heavier probably due to the sight (the 45 has an Ultradot L/T which feels like it weighs nothing...)

My next match is in two weeks.  I was planning on using my Model 41, but it had so many "issues" I was thinking of using a revolver.  I think I solved the issues, but if I get used to the Nelson, that's another option.

james r chapman wrote:Ugly? I just can’t get over that hammer! Looks like it’s off a cheap starter pistol!   Mike! You need to look good doing it!

As I see it, this is turning into a nightmare.  I woke up this morning with what I hope is a better idea.  My Salyer Springfield was set up for the original buyer.  After contacting him, I found he set it up to be used with both 45 and a 22 conversion kit.  That may explain why it has a two-piece guide rod, and a better hammer.

It took a few minutes this morning to lift off the 45 slide, and drop in the Nelson.  So I'm back to where I was, but with a gun that fits my hand, has a decent trigger, and the Nelson drops onto easily.  I can see where someone already filed a bit on the hammer to make things work.  I think it needs a tiny bit more filing, but that can come later.  Not only that, I'll be using the "same" gun for 45 and 22 if this works out.

Most importantly, Jim won't be laughing at me whenever he sees me....     :-)

(.....and thanks for all the advice.  Everything that was posted above now makes sense to me, so I guess I'm slowly learning.)

That looks very nice!

My experience with a Nelson was a nightmare. I've attached my results with a Nelson and hope they come through. They show the end result of months of testing and back and forth with the Nelson's. This is a very long story that I'll condense.

The attached pdf's show the results of my testing the Nelson on our Clubs Ransom Rest. I shot the Nelson from the rest at 50 yards. Do demo that my procedures were valid I removed the Nelson from my frame while still in the rest and slide on a friends Marvel. As you can see the results.

The Nelson shot like this from the first shot. Prior to this test Larry switched out the barrel at Camp Perry with no change in the results. I'm sure they were convinced that I was nuts. Or they at least conveyed that I had to be doing something wrong. Only when I sent them the Nelson / Marvel targets did they start taking me serious.

After returning my conversion to them I learned that they have no place to test fire their guns. (Are you kidding me???) Finally after a month or so they made arrangements to use the Lapua indoor test facility. They finally admitted that something was wrong and thought they needed a better fixture to hold the gun. There went another month. Eventually they essentially gave up and offered my choice of a new conversion, returning my unit as is, or a refund. I chose the refund and had to send them the accessories at my expense.

This was very frustrating ordeal. I wasted hundreds of rounds and countless hours at the range.

Problem had been solved with a used Marvel. Other than the shotgun like pattern I liked everything else about the Nelson.

Tom De Winter

It would be good if you (or someone) could talk to Larry, and find out what was wrong with the original kit.  

Me - I'm far too stubborn to have returned it.  I would have gone for the exchange.  


By the way, Larry is retired, and does this because he enjoys doing it.  He doesn't have a shop, a showroom, and a range.  He and his son do it because they enjoy doing it, and they have a long waiting list of customers.

I tried talking to Larry the following year at Perry. He acted like he didn't know who I was or what I was talking about. They didn't want me hanging around their booth and dispatched me as quickly and quietly as they could. Up to that point I didn't have an unkind word to say about Larry.

I'm a very patient person. Was in the camera repair business for 50 years. It's in my blood to figure out why things don't work and make corrections. But I was at the point that I just wanted to shoot and know that any shot that wasn't at least a 10 was on me.

Tom

That does look like a nice setup there, Mike, and hopefully will now function equally well for you.

Tom, did you see Larry, or his son?  Did you buy the gun online, or speak to them in person.  

If you have been in the camera business for 50 years, you know the Nikon D2h.  I bought one, and it was doing things that were "impossible".  I sent it back, and they replaced it.  Three times.  Eventually I asked them to send me a D2x that they had been using themselves for in-house work.  That camera worked fine.  I don't know what the problem was with my D2h, as when I called back, they couldn't tell me.   .....iI figure something was very wrong with your Nelson, and being THAT wrong, they must have eventually figured out what it was.

Call Larry, explain what happened, and tell him you bought the other gun.  Then ask him if they ever figured out what was wrong with your original gun.  Please post that info here, as I'm sure I'm not the only person who is curious now.....

Thanks, DA/SA; I'm on my way to the range to try it.

Nelson Conversion barrels have evolved, but still are not to the standard of real BE quality in my opinionated opinion
Originally the muzzle/crown was hand cut/reamed. Now they are CNC cut. Problem is the bore is not indicated concentrically into the CNC chuck/collet. So the crown can be off axis. It typically is. That's why many shooters get better groups after recrowning the barrel.
It takes more time to precisely crown a barrel and cuts efficiency. Their having no problem selling out all they can make which is great for them. Customer service is first class. I've never bern able to get a Nelson to group. The only one I've ever owned was a Sams reline. They have a great product but I believe it can be improved upon. They are aware of this.....
Jon

The one I own, sure a reline would shoot better from a rest. But from my hand it shoots fine. I did have it recrowned - to be fair. But I shot it into the mid 880’s on a regular basis. Sweet rig. I’m not going to disagree about barrel quality - you have to really fight for your tight groups at 50 yards from the hand but still a sweet rig. I won’t part with mine.

Does anyone have representative targets to show of factory vs relined and rechamfered barrels?

I believe the bad Nelson target is an anomaly.

mikemyers wrote: I'm on my way to the range to try it.

What ever happened with your new bench rest thing? 

Are you taking it with you to sight the Nelson in?

Just wondering how it worked for you.

I had similar problems with my Nelson the first time out while trying to sight it in.
I went back home, took it all apart, cleaned it and lightly lubed it using a q-tip.
I put it back on my Range Officer frame, inserted an empty mag and noticed the mag has up and down 
Play. When I push up on it , it seems to be touching the extractor. After reading Jon’s comment above,
I realized that I had the gun resting on the mag base when I had problems.
I went back to the range and shot 150 rounds one handed without any problems!
Using a cheap rest, here’s 5 shots at 25 yards indoors!
My club shoots an indoor match so I’m a happy camper!

 But I was at the point that I just wanted to shoot and know that any shot that wasn't at least a 10 was on me.

Tom

HERE, HERE

Meanwhile, back to my Nelson kit, I got to the range today, with the Nelson mounted on my Springfield.  I probably shot 50 or 60. rounds.  Shooting one handed I would load 5 rounds, the first round would fire, and for the next round I just heard a (click).  Pull down hammer, move slide to rear, and usually an empty case would fall out.  Repeat.  The slide sometimes stayed to the rear, and sometimes didn't.  

I was shooting CCI ammo.  I borrowed two rounds of Federal from someone at the range - it did shoot two in a row, once, but then reverted to not working.  One time, during the day, I got off four rounds nicely before it messed up.

I remember something about maybe using a different slide stop or sometihing when the Nelson is mounted on a Springfield Armory gun.    Maybe that's my problem??  

Two targets below, my last one-hand target, 25 yards, while hot and flustered, and just trying to use up a few rounds and go home - and the target at the right shot two-handed.  I'm more than pleased with the group, but again this was one shot at a time because of the issue.  I prefer NRA targets, not Shoot-n-see, but when it is way too hot, I get lazy sometimes.  (Ignore all the flyers - I was shooting on previously used targets found at the range.)

I think the video I posted much earlier explains this - will check it out.

Mike,

To me the issues that you have mentioned are magazine related. If the magazine sits too high it lifts the ejector.

A few questions:

Do you slam the magazines in? If so each time you do this you slam the magazine into the ejector and likely cause it to bend up. When I load mine, I do not put the magazine in with the slide locked back. Probably not necessary but it limits how far you can push the magazine upwards.   

Did you number your magazines? Doing so helps isolate problems related to feeding. I do this for all my guns.

A few other minor things I would double check would be making sure the slide stop and slide stop pin are tight against the frame and that you have the recoil rod tight. 

Try not to be too discouraged, you could be trying to make a kart conversion run. FWIW I currently have two Nelson units one with a dot and one with a combo rail that I am shooting with irons. Both group well and I initially had similar issues to what you are describing, a different mag catch fixed my problems. I do run a dedicated 22 lower though. 

Christopher

james r chapman wrote:Does anyone have representative targets to show of factory vs relined and rechamfered barrels?

I believe the bad Nelson target is an anomaly.

While fighting other issues, before I left for home, I shot one last target one handed, and then the final target two-handed.

The target that I posted half an hour or so shows the best group I am capable of now, shooting two handed.  I may not be even close to what the experts get, but until the Nelson, I haven't been able to shoot this well.  I'm obviously not as steady as a Ransom Rest, but even so it is nothing like the target posted somewhere up above from a defective Nelson, or at least a Nelson with a defective part or incorrectly installed part.

DA/SA wrote:What ever happened with your new bench rest thing? 

Are you taking it with you to sight the Nelson in?

Just wondering how it worked for you.

Getting the gun properly sighted is way down on my list.  First thing, I just wanted to get it working correctly.  I have that new bench rest sitting here, and do plan to try it out, but only after I fix my "issues".  If I get the gun cycling correctly, maybe I will get to use the rest early next week.  My only concern right now is function, and group size.  

I guess I still need to file a trigger - will explain shortly.

What are you using for lube on the rails?

A sticky lube could be impeding slide movement.

I'm about an hour and a half North of you, so I'm pretty sure it isn't a cold weather issue...

I use TW-25 on .22 rails and haven't had many issues with my Marvel, and I was using a 23 lb mainspring which added significant slide resistance, but light strikes weren't ever a problem.

Hey Mike! Don't file that trigger yet. On the Springfield, do you still have the ILS system? It's an internal locking system in the mainspring housing. If you have it, there's a small hole in the rear. The ILS system uses a very heavy mainspring, and can cause issues with conversions. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Dave

Good advice above.

Also make sure your thumb isn't riding the slide, doesn't take much pressure to keep the slide from going all the way back.

I had to leave for a while; back now.  These two photos will show something that is definitely interfering with the rail.

First, this is a photo from the rear of the slide.  I don't know the specific name for the part, but if you look in the middle, the lowest part, that is what scrapes against the trigger both ways.

The second photo shows the trigger.  At the top, it looks like someone has already filed some material off the trigger, since the gun had been used with a 22 conversion kit, but more needs to be removed.

In addition to anything else I may or may not need to do, this needs to be corrected.

(I never heard of an ILS system before.  I do see a small hole at the top-right of the backstop.  I'll take a photo of it.)

Dcforman wrote:Hey Mike! Don't file that trigger yet. On the Springfield, do you still have the ILS system? It's an internal locking system in the mainspring housing. If you have it, there's a small hole in the rear. The ILS system uses a very heavy mainspring, and can cause issues with conversions. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Dave

Correct. Remove stock spring and internals and replace with Colt style parts; 19# spring and standard mainspring cap and retaining pin.
Jon

Mike, here’s a link to a rebuild kit.....but you should use a 19# spring.
https://www.brownells.com/aspx/search/productdetail.aspx?pid=27082
I’m using the same frame as you and have done this.
Also, chiz1180 mentioned the ejector....I replaced the extended one for a standard one and the mag doesn’t hit it. Mine was glued in.
Hope this helps!
Bob

Jon and Bob, I've added the rebuild kit to my cart.  Also, found the 19# 1911 mainspring and added that.

I'll reply to Christopher in another response, and buy what is needed.

adminbot1911 wrote:Good advice above.

Also make sure your thumb isn't riding the slide, doesn't take much pressure to keep the slide from going all the way back.

Didn’t someone at some time make a shield that would protect the thumb from dragging on the slide?  I’m famous for doing this all the time.  Maybe it was Wilson?