Tell Me Your Dillon XL650 Tips and Tricks

For the primers, there is a little chrome sheet metal lever on top, just to the right of the primer wheel. Pull the press handle forward slightly and you can work the lever which advances the primer wheel 1 position. Work the lever until the first primer is in position.

If your press doesn't have it there is a low primer alarm you can get that the weight stick presses on when there are 9 (I think ) primers left. It's possible that you have it and the battery is dead. Blue plastic box on top of the primer tube with a black plastic lever on top.

Hornady also has a Powder thru expander setup that works with the existing case activated setup. It works fine. I’d add a bullet feed unless you’re only working with lubed lead. Coated lead will feed fine.

TomH_pa wrote:For the primers, there is a little chrome sheet metal lever on top, just to the right of the primer wheel. Pull the press handle forward slightly and you can work the lever which advances the primer wheel 1 position. Work the lever until the first primer is in position.

If your press doesn't have it there is a low primer alarm you can get that the weight stick presses on when there are 9 (I think ) primers left. It's possible that you have it and the battery is dead. Blue plastic box on top of the primer tube with a black plastic lever on top.

Thanks, I'll check out the lever.

I didn't find the primer alarm necessary on the SDB so it's been in the drawer for years. I'll dig it out and see if it still works. I hope I took the battery out.

Wobbley wrote:Hornady also has a Powder thru expander setup that works with the existing case activated setup.  It works fine.  I’d add a bullet feed unless you’re only working with lubed lead.  Coated lead will feed fine.

Thanks, I wasn't sure about the powder thru expander, so I got a Lee expander pretty cheap to get me up and running. I'll look into it a bit more.

I'm not sure about a bullet feeder. I might  be tempted to crank away too fast. I also don't want another headache that needs constant adjustment, but I'll consider it.

STEVE: "MINI MR BULLET FEEDER" WORKS GREAT WITH THE SWC LEAD SWAGED BULLETS. ON 550's, 650's AND 1050's. SET IT UP ONCE AND FORGET IT. JP

http://www.mrbulletfeeder.com/mini-mr-bulletfeeder/

Thanks Jim. How do they work with JHP? I thought your tip would be to buy 2 Super 1050's

SteveT wrote:Thanks Jim. How do they work with JHP? I thought your tip would be to buy 2 Super 1050's

I’m not Jim but the jhp work great in the mini bullet feeder.  I use the mini for lead and use full size bullet feeder for everything else

lablover wrote:

SteveT wrote:Thanks Jim. How do they work with JHP? I thought your tip would be to buy 2 Super 1050's

I’m not Jim but the jhp work great in the mini bullet feeder.  I use the mini for lead and use full size bullet feeder for everything else

 DITTO.
STEVE THEY WORK GREAT. WHEN YOU ADJUST THE POWDER /FLAIR DIE , IT ALREADY HAS THE SHOULDER THAT PEOPLE USE . THE FEEDER THAN SEATS THE BULLET SO PRECISE, SQUARE TO THE WALL OF THE CARTRIDGE CASE IT'S AWESOME. I WOULD SUGGEST GETTING THE KIT. WHICH IS 2 FEEDER TOWERS AND THE SEATING DIE AND POWDER FUNNEL. WHEN YOU GET IT CALL ME AND I'LL WALK YOU THRU THE NUANCES. JP

Besides the In Line Fabrication light you already have, I highly recommend the spent primer upgrade and live primer catcher from Dillon Upgrades http://www.dillonupgrades.com For something to stop the cases from feeding, I recommend what this fellow does, although an empty case doesn't work in my old 650, so I just use the removable tapered top from an old ball point pen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsB8OMOU6O0. I like the Dillon low primer warning accessory. Keep the press properly lubed. It is especially important to grease the axle pin for the primer disc. I put an empty .45 ACP case on top of the primer follower rod to add weight.

This morning I loaded 300 rounds. I verified that with the right light I can see primers coming around and I discovered the old "pen in the case shuttle" trick to stop cases coming. Works a treat.


I found the following works well (mostly documenting what I've found for future posterity). 

• Adjust / verify the Expander, Bullet Seating Depth, Crimp and Powder Charge
  
• Fill the machine with cases and primers
  
• Cycle twice to move cases up to the powder / prime station
  
• Remove the case, raise the press slightly and manually move the primer advance lever until I see one ready to be seated
  
• Carefully replace the case to avoid flipping the primer
  
• Start loading
  
• The first 5-10 after each stoppage go in the "practice" bin
  
• When primers get low add 100 more, check the powder level and cases in the feeder and just keep going.
  

At the end when the primer weight stick is near the bottom

• Turn off the case feeder (there's still 10-20 in the drop tube)
  
• Continue to cycle until the primer stick bottoms
  
• Cycle ~7-8 times looking for primers coming around
  
• When I see an empty primer carousel hole, cycle once more, then put a pen in the case feeder shuttle to stop feeding cases
  
• Check each cycle for a primer by removing the case from the powder / primer station and replacing if a primer is present
  

Mike - The press already has the spent primer adapter to spit them down a tube to a gallon jug (so does my old SDB). It is a wonderful accessory. I'm looking at the live primer catcher, but am going to wait and see how much I need it. I put a piece of old bicycle inner tube over the ski jump to catch the primers before they go flying. It seems to be working, but I haven't really needed it since I put it on. If I can find a piece of clear tubing large enough to fit I'll probably use that.

I ordered the powder through expander and primer shutoff gadget from Uniquetek so I can put the powder alarm back on. I'm not sure if it's needed for the bullet feeder, but if I decide to go down that path I'm ready. I'm also going to improve the lighting. 

Otherwise, so far so good.

I've heard some shooters say they won't use the MiniBullet feeder account the lube will gum up the detents small ball bearings that regulate the individual flow of bullets when using lead SWC bullets. I can see where the "coated" ones would work, I wonder if you cleaned them with gas or solvent and recoated with 45-45-10 and let it them dry real good for a few days would work? It would be more work with store boughts, but wouldn't with home casting.
 Stan

chopper wrote:I've heard some shooters say they won't use the MiniBullet feeder account the lube will gum up the detents small ball bearings that regulate the individual flow of bullets when using lead SWC bullets. I can see where the "coated" ones would work, I wonder if you cleaned them with gas or solvent and recoated with 45-45-10 and let it them dry real good for a few days would work? It would be more work with store boughts, but wouldn't with home casting.
 Stan

May as well just add coating. In two hours or so you could have 1000 bullets done.

I never done that Wobble, might have to look into that, does that stuff leave a hard coating or anything in the barrel, or make it different to clean it?
 I also like to hear if reloaders use their 650 to just deprime with, before wet tumble cleaning with pins and solution? I use my 550 with a Dillon depriming only die in a separate toolhead. I think getting a 650 toolhead and using that with the case feeder would work a lot faster. Anybody do that?

I only deprime rifle brass before tumbling. Pistol I don’t bother.

While viewing this clip https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsB8OMOU6O0 I observed something that I want to draw everyone's attention too.  Watch carefully behavior of the tool head at about 2:33 time mark.  You will clearly see vertical movement of the tool head.  This is something you want to eliminate, as such movement is major contributor to powder charge variations.

Also, I have a mark on my primer stick. When I am ending load, I simply turn off case feeder when stick reaches this mark. It takes 11 cases in 45 to clear remaining primers.

AP

Is there data supporting this claim?

"as such movement is major contributor to powder charge variations."

When the movement tops out, I would consider that very stable.

Jack H wrote:Is there data supporting this claim?

"as such movement is major contributor to powder charge variations."

When the movement tops out, I would consider that very stable.

Claim is based on my own experience.
AP

The vertical movement will affect the amount of travel ov the powder slide. Not significantly, but it is there.

There is a compounded effect of tool head's vertical movement combined with the fact that shell plate on XL650 rotates around the axial represented by the bolt in the center and doesn't really have solid support base at the stations area (main reason I recently added two Star Reloaders in 45ACP and 38WC) and variables in brass and projectiles leading to difference in resistance station by station while platform gets raised  ( a side note here, - this also leads to variations in OAL of the resulting round).  All together it creates close to +/- 0.1 grain difference in powder charges.  Another area of the powder charge deviation is fail safety return bracket due to its flexing unevenly and consequently not returning powder bar to the same position every time.  SteveT eliminated this  by using Hornady's Powder measure.  That is why he commented that observed variations is sub 0.1 grain.  IMHO this is quite substantial variation, although its effect on accuracy at 50 yards should not be significant, - resulting ammo will hold 9 ring or even better.  However grouping will open up.

AP

Factory ammunition whether loaded on automatic machines (huge Bliss Transfer Presses) or plate loaded in small batches won’t be any better than a tenth of a grain variance. The resulting variation will hardly register at 50;yards. The Drum style measures are better and more forgiving than the Dillon unit.

The single biggest problem pistol loaders face is getting quality bullets.

I just had a flash in my mind of Capt Picard in front of the replicator.

"Ammunition.  Forty-five ACP.  Accurate."

Well, we could text Atlanta Arms......






sorry!

There is an aftermarket replacement for the failsafe bracket that is very stiff.. name a dillon problem and you'll find a fix or someone will.come up with one more often than not.  I shim the die plate or use the screw kit from Uniquetek..  also floating dies.. do whatever you can to smooth any dillon out and you'll improve it.

Wobbley wrote:Factory ammunition whether loaded on automatic machines (huge Bliss Transfer Presses) or plate loaded in small batches won’t be any better than a tenth of a grain variance. The resulting variation will hardly register at 50;yards.    The Drum style measures are better and more forgiving than the Dillon unit.  

The single biggest problem pistol loaders face is getting quality bullets.  

I just order from Zero or Magnus.  Problem solved.

Below is a test I did sampling (randomly) 10 bullets from four 500 round boxes of 200 gr LSWC from 4 different lots. You'll find they're almost identical. I've done the same with some other brands and seen significantly less impressive results. I have some more lots at home and will continue to update the findings.  The Zero/Magnus 185 gr JHP are even better.

PhotoEscape wrote:There is a compounded effect of tool head's vertical movement combined with the fact that shell plate on XL650 rotates around the axial represented by the bolt in the center and doesn't really have solid support base at the stations area (main reason I recently added two Star Reloaders in 45ACP and 38WC) and variables in brass and projectiles leading to difference in resistance station by station while platform gets raised  ( a side note here, - this also leads to variations in OAL of the resulting round).  All together it creates close to +/- 0.1 grain difference in powder charges.  Another area of the powder charge deviation is fail safety return bracket due to its flexing unevenly and consequently not returning powder bar to the same position every time.  SteveT eliminated this  by using Hornady's Powder measure.  That is why he commented that observed variations is sub 0.1 grain.  IMHO this is quite substantial variation, although its effect on accuracy at 50 yards should not be significant, - resulting ammo will hold 9 ring or even better.  However grouping will open up.

I will politely disagree.  The floating nature of the 650 is the advantage.  Is a Forster COAX better yes.  However, it is a great press.  Is the 1050 better.  Yes.  But still, the 550/650 are both capable of record ammo.

I use the whidden floating and standard toolhead setup both. Combined with quality dies and a solid bench secured to prevent movement and quality components you can make ammunition that will and has won pistol and rifle National Championships.  With a few minor modifications the 550/650 is more than acceptable for match/precision rifle/pistol sports, and many improvements can be done for free (polishing) or minimal cost (grounding), but some require a larger investment (tool heads, aftermarket upgrades, etc). If your game of choice is benchrest, there are probably better options. However, David Tubb is probably the best American rifleman in history, with 11 NRA National High Power Rifle Championships, 30 Silhouette Rifle Championships, 7 Sportsmen's Team Challenge Championships and 6 NRA Long Range Rifle (600-1000 yd.) National Championships, and 2 Wimbledon Cups. All ammunition was loaded on a Dillon 550 or 650. John Whidden, three time National High Power Rifle Long Range Championused a Dillon 650 for all his ammunition. What many reloaders miss is that the 650 "play" doesn't matter as long as it is not at completion of the ram movement. When inserted the tool head will lock up. Taking the play out prevents alignment and reduces ability of the dies to align according to the reloading shop at the AMU. What does help is a tool head properly machined.  "The Whidden floating die toolheads allow your sizing and seating die to float independently and self align on the cartridge as it enters the die, similar to the way a Forster Coax press operates. For all intents and purposes, it is now like running 3 separate single stage presses simultaneously. Doing this has brought my concentricity measurements from .003”-.008” before modification, to .000”-.003” after, with most rounds falling below .002"

PhotoEscape wrote:While viewing this clip https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsB8OMOU6O0 I observed something that I want to draw everyone's attention too. Watch carefully behavior of the tool head at about 2:33 time mark. You will clearly see vertical movement of the tool head. This is something you want to eliminate, as such movement is major contributor to powder charge variations.

Below is an experiment with WST on my Dillon 650. I plan on re-testing with Bullseye when I get back from Deployment number 2.  Measurements were taken on a lab scale, which allowed accuracy to 1/100 of a grain. I think it is significant that 26 of 28 throws were +/- 0.02 grains. If you were measuring on a standard scale accurate to 1/10 of a grain every throw would measure 3.5 grains. I did use virgin starline brass from the same lot and agree the Hornady powder measure is superior (slightly).  However, I would argue that every throw below is more than acceptable and executed on an unlocked toolhead with stellar powder accuracy, especially for pistol. There is almost no powder variation in spite of the toolhead being unsecured.

Number of Throws: 28
Average: 3.50 grains
Standard Deviation: 0.02
Max Value: 3.54 grains (Note: 1 occurrence)
Min Value: 3.46 grains (Note: 1 occurrence)


3.50
3.48
3.48
3.48
3.50
3.50
3.52
3.48
3.50
3.50
3.50
3.50
3.48
3.50
3.50
3.50
3.50
3.48
3.50
3.46
3.50
3.50
3.50
3.52
3.50
3.54
3.50
3.52

SteveT wrote:I'm setting up a Dillon XL650 and finding it much more troublesome than my old Square Deal B. I would welcome any help you guys have learned about using them, tips, tricks, hacks, valuable accessories etc.

I got the XL650 used from a shooter who has passed. He used it up until last year. It is complete. I disassembled it as little as possible from his loading bench and set it up on mine,  but I can't ask him questions. It came stock including the case feeder with Dillon dies and powder measure. I had lots of problems with the powder measure (inconsistent charges, leaking powder all over the place). I couldn't find any worn or missing parts or anything out of alignment. I didn't want to take the time to mail it to Dillon, so I bought the Hornady case activated meter. It's working great with < 0.1gr variability using VV N310.

I read the articles below, executed the work along with a few other modifications, and use a bench that is horribly heavy which is bolted to the frame of my home I've seen impressive results.  Some powders definitely meter better than others, for example rifle extruded powders can be challenging, therefore I don't use the Dillon or any progressive press powder measure.  I also recommend having all stations loaded before you test powder throws as it may change once fully loaded. I also throw a few times before I take a measurement if I make any adjustments.  I found that nothing I did really gave me "massive" gains, instead I benefited from a series of tiny improvements that ended up providing increased precision.  I did add a Dillon roller handle to smooth things out, bought a different powder through expander as the stock Dillon tends to "stick" on new starline brass and causes "issues" with super precise powder dispensing, a Hit Factor shellplate bearing kit, Entirely Crimson Index Bearing Cam Block, and Roller Cam Follower/Camming Pin and prairie dog powder baffle. Starline will adjust the Dillon powder through expander for free, which does the same thing,  but I like the custom expander better, which does not over work brass by expanding further into the case and IMO allows the bullet to align better.  



Here are some great articles, some focused on Dillon, that are helpful for those who may be interested in increasing the precision of their press.  

1911 Forum - Dillon Powder Measure Tips by Tom Freeman

Dillon Forum - Powder Measure - by D Victor

Airfield Shooting Club - Dillon Powder Measure Tuning

UniqueTek 20 Tips for Powder Measure Accuracy

UniqueTek Humidity & Handloading

Shooting Sports USA Progressive Presses Optimum Powder Metering Tips

Shooting Sports USA Progressive Presses Self-Advancing Shellplate Type

Shooting Sports USA Handloading Tips To Reduce Metered Powder Charge Variation

Shooting Sports USA Progressive Presses Uniformity of Headspace Powder Charges And Priming

6.5 Guys - Precision From A Progressive Reloader

Steve Bathje ( sbathje@yahoo.com ) makes the powder through expander among other things and I believe the cost is about $30.00 each, but he combines shipping. He also has an eBay store under the title RRPMI https://www.ebay.com/sch/rrpmi/m.html. Steve's expander goes into your powder measure die, just like Dillon's, but opens the case up an extra 5 - 6 thousands (about 1/16 of an inch) and I find this to be the simplest solution to properly seat LSWCs and avoid the "jerky" movement associated with unlubed virgin brass. His products are also machined from quality stainless steel.  UniqueTek has a similar product here:  http://uniquetek.com/product/T1582 I think either will serve very well.