What do people think of this RRA bullseye pistol?

First topic message reminder :

Interested in hearing about pros and cons of this pistol apart from it's initial cost.

Also interested in hearing about the options that is offered in terms of checkering - 20-30 LPI, RRA vs. KART barrels

https://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=138

jlow wrote:Yes, a good non-slip grip is essential.

How about grip size?  Despite being a mid-size guy, I find that most of the polymer pistol grips are too small for me.  What options do you have with the RR?  I imagine that you can change grip panels but the factory comes with only one size?

The factory may come with only one size but there are about a bazillion aftermarket grips for a 1911 platform. If you go to E-bay and type in 1911 grips a lot of choices will show up. As mentioned above I have large hands and found grips that fit great. I wish I could use them on my ball guns but standard grips also work. The extra wood on these grips is really just a comfortable way to get the same grip every time. The grip pressure should be applied to the front and back strap.

Sig and Nills grips

Nice!  Thanks!

What no 38 special?  Just kidding, looks like a great choice, too bad you can't get it in CA

Just an FYI
I know of several shooters who have returned their B.E guns for repeated rework and are still waiting to get them back.
All is not well in RRA land.

james r chapman wrote:Just an FYI
I know of several shooters who have returned their B.E guns for repeated rework and are still waiting to get them back.
All is not well in RRA land.

What have been their issues?

Seems like a trend. The older Rock River and Les Baer's were prized pistols. The new ones not so much.

Bill

Thanks for the update in the new trend with RRA land.....

One of the wad guns I own is brand new and so far performs just as well at the older ones.  I'll admit I do not have a ton of rounds fired through it yet so time will tell but I'm pretty happy with it.  No malfunctions yet.  I won't get to shoot much until spring so I'll resume my break in then and report back.

John

James, I would still like to hear your friends issues and how RRA responded. RRA has typically had a pretty good name for a "semi-custom" wadcutter, to just drop in and crap on them with no further explanation isn't very fair to RRA.

james r chapman wrote:Just an FYI
I know of several shooters who have returned their B.E guns for repeated rework and are still waiting to get them back.
All is not well in RRA land.

What are the specific problems with the guns?

x90rider wrote:

james r chapman wrote:Just an FYI
I know of several shooters who have returned their B.E guns for repeated rework and are still waiting to get them back.
All is not well in RRA land.

What are the specific problems with the guns?

I bought a used RRA last year and needed to send it RRA for some work. Zero problems. Fixed right the first time. Great customer service in my opinion. Not the quickest turnaround, but I doubt you would see any faster with a full custom gunsmith. 

They arranged a time to call and talk to the gunsmith. He explained the problem and the repair in detail, answered my questions and even gave me some advice on my reloads and recoil spring weights. He also asked if there were other things he could do while it was there like a different trigger, etc.

The problem was the base of the cartridge would ride up too high and jam. The gap between the frame and barrel feed ramps was too narrow. The RRA gunsmith said that they used to make them that way in an attempt to make them tighter.

I have a friend (yeah, I know - hard to believe I have any) who owns a two RRA's. At Perry, RRA totally tuned them up and fixed a couple of minor problems.

I would recommend RRA guns and would not hesitate to buy another.

Mr. Chapman, please elaborate. Curious minds want to know.

Bought a RRA wadgun at Perry this year. Great gun.

james r chapman wrote:Just an FYI
I know of several shooters who have returned their B.E guns for repeated rework and are still waiting to get them back.
All is not well in RRA land.

Several people have asked for specifics and no answers. Do you have any facts or are you just hate baiting?

Another question as it relates to the RRA.  Apart from the checkering, there is a choice of “with RRA Bullseye rib” or “with RRA slide mount”  The gun comes with what looks like a pic rail on top with the only difference being that the former appears to come with iron front and rear sights whereas the latter appears to be missing both but with a slightly more extended pic rail.


What are the pros and cons of the two for competition?  And yes, I would likely be using optics but finding it difficult to not have an iron sight option?

jlow wrote:Another question as it relates to the RRA.  Apart from the checkering, there is a choice of “with RRA Bullseye rib” or “with RRA slide mount”  The gun comes with what looks like a pic rail on top with the only difference being that the former appears to come with iron front and rear sights whereas the latter appears to be missing both but with a slightly more extended pic rail.


What are the pros and cons of the two for competition?  And yes, I would likely be using optics but finding it difficult to not have an iron sight option?

The slide mount is great if you are just planning on using optics. The bullseye rib will go both ways, optics or adjustable iron sights. I had the slide mount on my wad gun because I had no intention of shooting iron sights on that particular gun. Also the racking ears are a nice addition to the mount.

Thanks a bunch for your response!

I guess my original intent was to go with an optic mounted on the pic rail (same as bullseye rib?) on top of the gun.  However, I then realize that with that setup, the optic will be cycling with the slide.  I can think of a couple of reason why that might be bad.  

One is of course it will change the weight of the slide which might affect function?  Another is it would subject the optic to more g-forces which may affect it's reliability.

So my question is what is better, mounting the optic on the top rail or on something like a grip-based mount?

I started with a frame mount Les Baer, then a slide mount RRA and now have a custom 1911 with a slide mount. 

The slide mount is easier for me to shoot because the added weight on the slide makes the recoil more pleasant, a frame mount is more snappy like an iron sight pistol. A frame mount is a bit less sensitive to load variable since its moving less slide weigh but I haven't had issues, just keep in mind if you shoot in warm weather then take some time off and shoot again when it cools down you might need to bump up your powder drop a tenth or two.

jlow wrote:Thanks a bunch for your response!

I guess my original intent was to go with an optic mounted on the pic rail (same as bullseye rib?) on top of the gun.  However, I then realize that with that setup, the optic will be cycling with the slide.  I can think of a couple of reason why that might be bad.  

One is of course it will change the weight of the slide which might affect function?  Another is it would subject the optic to more g-forces which may affect it's reliability.

So my question is what is better, mounting the optic on the top rail or on something like a grip-based mount?

As far as which option is better slide or frame mount, it is a preference thing mostly. The feel is different, I have both and prefer the feel of the slide mount. Slide mount is a bit easier to clean. Frame mounted optics make manipulating the slide a bit different, my frame mount has a slide racker. On my slide mount gun I use the optic to manipulate the slide. 

Both options work, mostly comes down to a preference.

Thanks for all the input, some great insight for me.  Still wondering a little on how that might adversely affect the optic?

If you can handle the weight a 9000SC is hard to beat, my favorite dot I've ever used, it's superior to everything else except in overall size and weight categories. It will handle the recoil.

x90rider wrote:

james r chapman wrote:Just an FYI
I know of several shooters who have returned their B.E guns for repeated rework and are still waiting to get them back.
All is not well in RRA land.

Several people have asked for specifics and no answers. Do you have any facts or are you just hate baiting?

From my friend

RRA
I would have responded sooner but I was fixing dinner and my finger was sore. 
Trigger was about 5lbs
Stovepipes with any ammo
Zero hpwc jam on the frame ramp
The throat on the bottom of the barrel is WAY over done and is over .06 from the frame ramp. 
They have had the gun for 3 months and haven’t responded to a letter to the owner, chuck Larson

Dear JLow,

This thread has kind of drifted from your original questions about the RRA - I cannot comment on RRA's, never owned one - to questions about optics & mounts. I've experimented a lot with them.

Earlier this year I attempted to create a "hybrid" 1911 which I could hopefully use for 2700 CF with an optic and EIC Service Pistol with the iron sights. I had Dave Salyer drill/tap the slide of my SIG 1911 9mm and cut/fit a Clark rail. He also replaced the original iron sights with "Suppressor Height" iron sights. Fitted a match barrel, tightened it up and provided two Sear Springs to swap out according the CF or Service trigger pulls as required. Here it is with a 1" Ultradot mounted on Warne medium rings.

It shoots really well with good ammo, but, after I got it back and considered things more carefully with the gun in my hands I came to realise that my "hybrid", whilst conceptually good, did not work well in reality. The high iron sights do allow for sighting over the rail, but the sight picture is very "busy" and I don't like it. If I have to remove the optic, why not just remove three screws and take off the rail too? That is what I then did when I turned the gun to EIC Service practise. Some folks suggest that it might be necessary to use fresh screws for rail security after each removal - I have not yet had any problem re-using the screws, but I admit that I've not shot the gun a lot with the optic in place. I am now frustrated by the new rear sight. It is adjustable for elevation only, not very convenient for precision pistol work. So I intend to replace it with a Novak fully adjustable sight. OK, not a big issue.

I also had Dave Salyer drill/tap a couple of other 1911's (45ACP & 38Super) for rails. I then shortened the standard Clark rails in the same manner as shown above. Mounted UD's with no problem and can leave the original iron target sights in place and zeroed. I've sold those guns now as I've moved on to other things, but they worked perfectly well with the optics mounted on the shorter rails.

Before getting serious about Bullseye I fitted Vortex Venom micro-reflex sights to all of my 1911's using simple mounts fitted to the standard rear sight dovetails. That method precludes having to get the slides drilled and creates a perfectly stable mount for the very small and light VV's. I found that the VV dots did not suit my eyes (there are lots of other threads on this subject), but if you have younger, sharper eyes then this is a very good solution.
 

james r chapman wrote:

x90rider wrote:

james r chapman wrote:Just an FYI
I know of several shooters who have returned their B.E guns for repeated rework and are still waiting to get them back.
All is not well in RRA land.

Several people have asked for specifics and no answers. Do you have any facts or are you just hate baiting?

From my friend

RRA
I would have responded sooner but I was fixing dinner and my finger was sore. 
Trigger was about 5lbs
Stovepipes with any ammo
Zero hpwc jam on the frame ramp
The throat on the bottom of the barrel is WAY over done and is over .06 from the frame ramp. 
They have had the gun for 3 months and haven’t responded to a letter to the owner, chuck Larson

That's one out of several. Do you know which gun he purchased? There is a lot of difference between the models. The higher priced guns have tighter tolerances and a lot more hand work goes into them for better feeding, accuracy, and trigger performance. Also, it might be a good idea for your friend to just call Rock River and have them provide the status of his gun.

At this point he just wants his $$$$ back.
Another just wished he’d get the one he ordered at 2019 Perry.
YMMV obviously.
Maybe this post will get them a response from RRA.

james r chapman wrote:,...
The throat on the bottom of the barrel is WAY over done and is over .06 from the frame ramp. 
They have had the gun for 3 months and haven’t responded to a letter to the owner, chuck Larson

Interesting - mine was too tight, your friend's was too loose. Maybe a theme?

I had to call and email a few times to get a response. Squeaky wheel.

It would be nice to hear the opinions of some custom gunsmiths on RRA's and the clearance between the feed ramp and throat.