New Bullseye pistol

by Novak Wed Nov 08, 2023 2:57 pm

I need your advice, guys! I use a S&W Model 41 for my 900 match that we have each Saturday. Cannot put up with the sometimes alibis I get. And it really hurts my score.
Two of our shooters have increased their scores so much over the past few months that one of them is now our top shooter! I asked him what did he do. Both he and his Father bought Volquartsen parts to modify their Ruger series iv and iii. That was it! So I went onto Youtube to check it out. Volquartsen makes a model Black Mamba that already has all their parts built onto a Ruger model iv frame for only $1350.00. They claimed no alibis to mention, plus since Volquartsen did all the modification, I should get NO alibis with the Black Mamba. I am about ready to go for it. What do you guys think? Is the Volquartsen Black Mamba a really good Bullseye gun? Or are these guys just improving on their own and it is not their move to Volquartsen parts? Thanks!

by **Wobbley** Wed Nov 08, 2023 3:09 pm

Perhaps a better alternative:

https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t22470-fs-1911-marvel-conversion

Yes it’s a conversion of a 45. But, it’s a purpose built Lower and it’s less money total.

by r_zerr Wed Nov 08, 2023 4:46 pm

If the pistol is accurate, fixing it or the ammunition so that you are not having alibis is the route.
Unless you are just seeking justification to buy something new.
Fyi, check out all of the threads regarding .22 pistol functioning. You will find lots of them. They are discussing .22 ammo and what works in individual guns, makes models and this lot of ammo vs that lot of ammo. Also cleaning, cleaning the chamber with bent brushes, oiling ammo, oiling the pistol, magazines, tuning magazines; extractors, extractor springs, and recoil springs. I'm sure that I've missed something
.22's auto pistols can be finicky. Ultimately you will need to learn to make whatever you have work, and what is required to make them work.

by Cmysix Wed Nov 08, 2023 5:01 pm

Darts, Buy a set of darts, no FTF.

by BE Mike Wed Nov 08, 2023 5:22 pm

Send your S&W model 41 to a bullseye pistolsmith for a relined barrel or match barrel and reliability job.

by Steve B Wed Nov 08, 2023 5:30 pm

BE Mike wrote:Send your S&W model 41 to a bullseye pistolsmith for a relined barrel or match barrel and reliability job.

I think David Sams and Alex Hamilton both reline barrels.

by rburk Wed Nov 08, 2023 7:25 pm

As suggested above, first look through the threads on 22 reliability. I shoot a 41, and have had to fiddle with it. It is now very reliable. What I did:

Clean the chamber. Barrel must pass the "plop" test (drop a live round in, it should chamber and go plop). I do this before each match. I use a 25 cal brush bent to an L shape.

Try different ammo. My 41 and others I have seen seem to like CCI SV.

For sustained fire, I oil the top round of every other magazine (every 10 shot). Just a very small drop, and I smear it around with my finger. You don't want a lot of excess oil dripping everywhere to collect dirt.

Consider getting a Clark STC barrel. It has no extension over the slide, so there is less chance to trap brass (stovepipes).

If you still want a Ruger, buy a 22/45 and a volquartsen trigger kit. You can install it yourself, and will probably have the same trigger that the black mamba has. The whole thing should be less than $700, maybe even better if you can get a good used pistol.

I have a Mk III 22/45, and I like it, has the same grip as a 1911. However, if I let it get really dirty, it will malfunction also.

by DA/SA Wed Nov 08, 2023 8:26 pm

If I recall, you were doing fine until you switched ammo brand about mid match.

.22 target pistols, even the best, can be very finicky about ammo. The best thing to do is to try different ammo until you find something that your 41 likes, and then stick to that brand.

Mine likes CCI SV and Norma Tac 22 so far, and has been alibi free on either. Have not needed to try anything else.

Unless you just want to try shooting a different pistol for a change!

by Novak Wed Nov 08, 2023 8:54 pm

BE Mike wrote:Send your S&W model 41 to a bullseye pistolsmith for a relined barrel or match barrel and reliability job.

Yes Mike. I did send it to a Pistolsmith here in Florida. He phoned me after he had it for several days and said he could not get it to repeat the alibis that I had. I thought Omygosh, I hope when I get it back I can shoot it like he did. I had 7 alibis in a row in a 900 match on Nov.4th. After the first shot, the trigger would not fire the pistol. But if I pulled the slide back a good 1 inch and release it. Then the trigger would fire the gun. I did that for 4 times. The next string of 5 rounds, it did it again. It would only fire the first round. Then I had to pull the slide back only about 1 inch and release. Then it would fire. Really strange! Never had this happen before. Can you imagine what I would do at the 25 yard line? I put it away and switched to my S&W 5-screw. A 1951 built pre model 17 revolver that had iron sights. Did poorly with that.
So after all this, I thought I would get the Volquartsen on a credit card and I would be done with these blasted strange alibis. By the way, I use CCI sv all the time in all my .22 pistols.

by PMcfall Wed Nov 08, 2023 11:04 pm

FS: 1911/Marvel Conversion (bullseyeforum.ne

by hengehold Thu Nov 09, 2023 2:19 am

Novak wrote:
BE Mike wrote:Send your S&W model 41 to a bullseye pistolsmith for a relined barrel or match barrel and reliability job.

Yes Mike. I did send it to a Pistolsmith here in Florida. He phoned me after he had it for several days and said he could not get it to repeat the alibis that I had. I thought Omygosh, I hope when I get it back I can shoot it like he did. I had 7 alibis in a row in a 900 match on Nov.4th. After the first shot, the trigger would not fire the pistol. But if I pulled the slide back a good 1 inch and release it. Then the trigger would fire the gun. I did that for 4 times. The next string of 5 rounds, it did it again. It would only fire the first round. Then I had to pull the slide back only about 1 inch and release. Then it would fire. Really strange! Never had this happen before. Can you imagine what I would do at the 25 yard line? I put it away and switched to my S&W 5-screw. A 1951 built pre model 17 revolver that had iron sights. Did poorly with that.
So after all this, I thought I would get the Volquartsen on a credit card and I would be done with these blasted strange alibis. By the way, I use CCI sv all the time in all my .22 pistols.

I had a SW-41 built around 2017 or so. It had pretty bad reliability issues. FTF, FTE, and a dead trigger like you described. I was able to reduce the FTE & FTF by a large amount through changing the recoil spring to a different strength ( Wolff springs) and also send it to Dave Sam’s for his reliability package that he does for the SW-41. After he completed the work I still experienced a fair amount of dead-trigger events during matches so I got rid of it and replaced it with a Nelson 22 RF conversion for my 1911. In hind sight the 22 conversion for the 1911 is the best way to go if you already have a 1911 to use for bullseye. If you don’t have a 1911 and only shoot a 22 RF for bullseye then I think the Ruger Mk IV 22/45 is a phenomenal value (~$500). I have a Ruger MK IV 22/45 also and mine is quite reliable. The Ruger MK IV also has a trigger upgrade kit from volqortsen that is about $150.

I hope you don’t get sucked into dumping money in so a SW-41 just to have to get rid of it like I did. Good luck.

by joem5636 Thu Nov 09, 2023 9:09 am

If not using CCI SV, put some reloading wax on your finger tip as you load. I often use Federal box ammo and found that ‘waxing’ the rounds [just like CCI! fixed my problem. Also, I’ve had to replace my extractor once. Otherwise, never a problem.

by Froneck Thu Nov 09, 2023 9:19 am

At one time the 41 was the top pf the list, 75% or more of the top shooters were using them at Camp Perry, Now I don't know any top shooter that is using the 41! The barrel was good, relining will not help! Problem was with the lock-up. I made quite a few 41 barrels for Floyd Aikman, I would leave that lower lock-up lug oversize so Floyd could fit it to the Frame. If my memory is correct the frame machining tolerance was too great!
Depending on how much you want to spend I would consider another pistol if I were you. One thing that new shooters must realize is that you can not learn to shoot good if the gun don't! Simply because the only corrections that can be made is to the shooter, when something happens that is not done by the shooter then they will attempt to correct it assuming they were the problem. The opposite is also present, the shooter errors and assume it was the gun and does nothing! When Adam was a new shooter I put tack drivers in his hand that functioned!

by BE Mike Thu Nov 09, 2023 10:49 am

Novak, is your 41 a Performance Center pistol? I never used a model 41, but if I had trouble with one, I'd send it off to get it worked on, but that's just me. Not all pistolsmiths are equal, just like any other field. I used High Standards before going to the Hammerli 208s. The Hammerli is more accurate and as near to 100% reliable as is possible. The High Standards were pretty reliable, but nothing like the Hammerli. I started out with a Ruger. It was accurate and reliable, but the trigger, grip angle and sights left me cold. Back when I had my MKI there weren't too many aftermarket parts as today. I have a Marvel .22 conversion. They are ok, but some require more fiddling with than others. Much of it is magazine related. You seem determined to get a Volquartsen Ruger, as you are frustrated with the Model 41. Go for it! BTW, I have had pistols where I would drag my thumb on the slide and it would cause malfunctions. Nothing wrong except the loose nut behind the trigger.

by L. Boscoe Thu Nov 09, 2023 2:04 pm

I have all 3-ruger, 41 and Marvel. The marvel has given the most
trouble with chambering no matter what ammo. The ruger has a tendency to retain rounds in the chamber, but the 41 is the most
reliable, although I had to get rid of the grips as they were a fit
problem. 22's are a PITA compared to 45's. And I had to send the
41 back because it would not release the trigger frame for cleaning.

by targetbarb Thu Nov 09, 2023 5:13 pm

Novak wrote:
BE Mike wrote:Send your S&W model 41 to a bullseye pistolsmith for a relined barrel or match barrel and reliability job.

Yes Mike. I did send it to a Pistolsmith here in Florida. He phoned me after he had it for several days and said he could not get it to repeat the alibis that I had. I thought Omygosh, I hope when I get it back I can shoot it like he did. I had 7 alibis in a row in a 900 match on Nov.4th. After the first shot, the trigger would not fire the pistol. But if I pulled the slide back a good 1 inch and release it. Then the trigger would fire the gun. I did that for 4 times. The next string of 5 rounds, it did it again. It would only fire the first round. Then I had to pull the slide back only about 1 inch and release. Then it would fire. Really strange! Never had this happen before. Can you imagine what I would do at the 25 yard line? I put it away and switched to my S&W 5-screw. A 1951 built pre model 17 revolver that had iron sights. Did poorly with that.
So after all this, I thought I would get the Volquartsen on a credit card and I would be done with these blasted strange alibis. By the way, I use CCI sv all the time in all my .22 pistols.

The trigger reset on a M41 is pretty subtle. Earlier this year I had a few "alibis" and after several figured out I wasn't releasing the trigger enough after the first shot to reset the trigger. For whatever reason it only happened after the first shot as you describe. I bet when you pull the slide back, your finger has been taken off the trigger...

by Novak Fri Nov 10, 2023 12:37 am

targetbarb:

Never gave a thought to it being the reset. When I get it back from the Pistolsmith, I will make sure I release the trigger enough for it to do a reset. Thank you!

by shooterer Fri Nov 10, 2023 10:00 am

If you have the funds, buy the pistol. If you save a little more or you sell 2 or 3 of your firearms, for could buy a top tier Olympic quality pistol.

It sounds to me you no longer trust the pistol and with that mind set, it will be hard for you to advance.

Unfortunate, I speak from experience on this subject.

by PMcfall Fri Nov 10, 2023 11:23 am

I agree with a couple of others on here in that in general the S&W 41 is a fine pistol and if you are having trouble, send it to a Bullseye gunsmith. I'm feel quite certain he will get it up and running to your satisfaction. Dave Salyer is not too far from you, he is in South Carolina.
Phil

by Novak Fri Nov 10, 2023 12:33 pm

shooterer wrote:If you have the funds, buy the pistol. If you save a little more or you sell 2 or 3 of your firearms, for could buy a top tier Olympic quality pistol.

It sounds to me you no longer trust the pistol and with that mind set, it will be hard for you to advance.

Unfortunate, I speak from experience on this subject.

Shooterer: Yes, I ordered the Volquartsen Black Mamba with a 6" barrel from Bass Pro Shops. My store did not have it in stock. They claim they will have it sent to them from another store that does have it. It will take 5 to 8 days. But I had to pay them in advance. So I applied and got their credit card. For items bought from their site or store, the charge is only 9.9% apr. Youtube has many videos on this model. All seem favorable, especially the reliability and accuracy. One reviewer said he had a bit over 1,000 rounds through his and still no alibis. I am only 5'7" tall and weigh 165 lbs, so I was especially glad to hear it is a very lightweight pistol. Much lighter than my Model 41.

by BeemerBill Sat Dec 09, 2023 8:00 pm

I had similar M41 alibi problems. I replaced the extractor with a Volquartsen EDM hardened steel extractor and replaced the springs with a Wolff spring kit. Tested different ammo and verified that my pistol favored CCI SV (big surprise). Used my club’s summer practice league to identify any magazine problems, ended up throwing one away. I clean and lubricate my pistol before each match and do a round plop test in the chamber. I load the first round by pulling the slide back and releasing it instead of just hitting the slide release. So far during the winter match season, zero alibis (knock on wood). My M41 was manufactured in 1985. I am currently running a 7 inch barrel that was shortened to 5 inch to reduce weight.

by Novak Sat Dec 09, 2023 10:28 pm

BeemerBill wrote:I had similar M41 alibi problems. I replaced the extractor with a Volquartsen EDM hardened steel extractor and replaced the springs with a Wolff spring kit. Tested different ammo and verified that my pistol favored CCI SV (big surprise). Used my club’s summer practice league to identify any magazine problems, ended up throwing one away. I clean and lubricate my pistol before each match and do a round plop test in the chamber. I load the first round by pulling the slide back and releasing it instead of just hitting the slide release. So far during the winter match season, zero alibis (knock on wood). My M41 was manufactured in 1985. I am currently running a 7 inch barrel that was shortened to 5 inch to reduce weight.

BeemerBill,

Thanks for your reply.

I noticed you said you clean your Model 41 before each match. I clean mine about every 6 matches. I will clean it as you do and see if that makes a difference. Also I may try getting a Wolff spring kit for it. And I will clean the magazines with a Q-tip and #9 Hoppes, as it does not pick up the next cartridge. -- Joe --

by Kp321 Sun Dec 10, 2023 11:38 am

I will not tolerate an unreliable pistol! I have two 41’s and two Nelson conversions on dedicated frames. They are all 100% reliable. The 41’s have their own ammo preferences but the Nelson’s are reliable with anything I stick in the magazine.

by Novak Sun Dec 10, 2023 2:57 pm

Kp321 wrote:I will not tolerate an unreliable pistol! I have two 41’s and two Nelson conversions on dedicated frames. They are all 100% reliable. The 41’s have their own ammo preferences but the Nelson’s are reliable with anything I stick in the magazine.

Thanks for your reply KP321.

I do have a Marvel series 1. Perhaps I should give that a try again. I had alibis with it using several different brands of .22. Perhaps I should stay with CCI. -- Joe --

by Cmysix Sun Dec 10, 2023 4:29 pm

I have a Bob Day 30X conversion I don't need, slide it right on your .45 frame, 2 mags

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