Swaging - Still a few bugs in the system

Greetings,

The past week I have cast slugs and swaged a variety of bullets for the 32 ACP.

Two diameters, 0.312" and 0.314", and two different shape hollow base profiles. The nose punch shape remains unchanged.

In the process of swaging, I have detected flaws in my process.

The slugs are cast with a 5-cavity mould and weigh 66+ grains with 25:1 Lead:Tin alloy. I find that Tin helps the metal to flow better under pressure.

Next, the slugs are swaged to weight, 65 grains, and 0.312" diameter using a SWC nose punch and a hollow base punch resembling the shape of a Speer 98 HBWC. This pointed punch allows the metal to flow better than my other punch that is modeled after the H&N bullet.

With the aid of a magnifying lens, I can see slight defects in the base periphery. Here I find small flecks of Lead sheared off and getting trapped between the bullet and base punch near the edge margin. It becomes necessary to clean the base punch prior to each swaging operation. Still, some defects still occur. Out of 350 swaged bullets, I had only 75 "keepers" in which the base formed fully with no visual defects.

Next, I insert my 0.314" die set with the SWC nose punch and H&N base punch (It is easy to swage a bullet larger; but, rather difficult to swage again the bullet using the same diameter die as the bullet exits slightly larger than the die cavity.). Cleaning the "reject" bullet bases on a clean shop rag to remove any flecks of metal I swage them again for final shape and diameter. Still, the base punch needs to be cleaned before each bullet.

Now, my rejection rate is near zero and the bullets are ready for the lubrication phase.

I write this to inform those who are thinking of swaging as a future endeavor. To get excellent bullets a lot of work is involved. The benefit is that once mastered, you will never have to worry about your bullet being discontinued or sold out. Not to mention the excellent accuracy achieved, to boot.

Cheers,

Dave

Locked In in South Prairie, WA

Thanks for sharing.

I've wanted to start swaging for a long time, but figured there would be a lot to learn, so it's probably better as a retirement project.

Super valuable 

Thanks Dave

Fc60,
I know in the past people used lead wire instead of casting slugs to swage.  Are the lead wires no longer available?  And if they are wouldn't that  cure any casting problems and just involve cutting wire to length eliminating a huge step in casting? 
I looked into swaging decades ago so I'me sure my thoughts and what I remember are outdated but had to ask. All I knew at the time was it was to expensive for me to get into and I could buy a huge quantity of commercial bullets for what swaging equipment would have cost me.  I guess it's a different story if someone's looking for something out of the ordinary .358 or .452, then it would be worth the cost and effort.

Virgil

Wire is more common. But is usually just in Commercially pure lead only unless you extrude it yourself after you buy a “heat“ of lead alloy.  A “heat” is generally several tons.

Greetings,

I have swaged bullets from Lead wire. The wire is expensive. Also, pure Lead bullets do not always perform as well as alloyed ones.

I have measured the hardness of several commercial swaged bullets and found NONE to be pure Lead. All are an alloy of some sort.

The advantage of casting slugs is one can vary the alloy to suit. I started out with 10:1 Lead:Tin with good results. Next, I went to 20:1. Now, I use 25:1. In future, I may try 30:1 or 40:1.

I have swaged bullets using Stick On Wheel Weights. It works; but, the metal does not flow as well as a Lead:Tin alloy.

Years ago, I made a extrusion cylinder to convert 3/4" x 4" Alloy billets into wire (Looks like a cake decorating squeeze tube, I even machined it with interchangeable nozzles for different wire diameters.). I had to use a 50 ton press with a manual pump handle. Too much work for me so I loaned the entire kit to my Pal, Hoover.

With a five cavity slug mould, I can cast a lot of pieces in one hour.

Almost forgot, the SWC punch does not always fill out fully using a cylindrical slug. The cast slugs have the SWC nose and fit rather well into the SWC swaging punch.

Here is a link to the mould I use...

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=31-065Z-D.png

Cheers,

Dave

I look forward to trying Dave’s lead mix. My alloy is at about 13 BHN and swaged pretty easy.  I’m also using a accurate mold as Dave is.  I’m developing my process these last few days and I found I was getting the same little flakes etc on the bottom.  For giggles I tried 2 different things and both seemed to work pretty well.

First was to Hitek coat first before sizing and swaging.  That seemed to help a lot.

The next thing I tried was on the raw cast, using a little imperial sizing wax from my Palma days on the base punch and that worked real well!  Again, I did this on raw lead but it also works on the hitek coated as well.

I’ve posted an extreme close up for those interested.

Here is the hitek version with a button base I also made.  Can’t wait to see how they shoot!  Seeing all our ranges are shut down I may be asking for beta testers..hahahaha

Greetings,

Rather heart warming.

I feel as if I have planted a seed and watching it grow.

Cheers,

Dave

Never too old to learn something new!

I weighed quite a few and I was within 1/2 grain on all. Not a single one was over a grain total. I’d say I weighed about 50 out of the batch.

Thanks a million for the help Dave.

I must say that I find the long series of endeavours by FC60, Dr. Don, Lablover (and no doubt many others) to be very interesting and illuminating. I have no interest in getting into the casting or swaging game though, I struggle already just to load decent ammo with commercial bullets.

But, what does intrigue me is why the 32ACP (and, to some extent, the 32SWL) are so bloody difficult to find decent bullets for? And, along the same thought drift, why do I find a Pardini 32ACP, with identical grip and red dot, so much more difficult to shoot than the Pardini SP22 (using $2/box Aguila ammo for practise).

I guess that if there was an easy answer it would already be a Sticky on this Forum. Ho hum....

radjag wrote:I must say that I find the long series of endeavours by FC60, Dr. Don, Lablover (and no doubt many others) to be very interesting and illuminating. I have no interest in getting into the casting or swaging game though, I struggle already just to load decent ammo with commercial bullets.

But, what does intrigue me is why the 32ACP (and, to some extent, the 32SWL) are so bloody difficult to find decent bullets for? And, along the same thought drift, why do I find a Pardini 32ACP, with identical grip and red dot, so much more difficult to shoot than the Pardini SP22 (using $2/box Aguila ammo for practise).

I guess that if there was an easy answer it would already be a Sticky on this Forum. Ho hum....

Greetings,

"Endeavours", you must speak the Queen's English. I used to, until they taught me how to speak like an American in school.

Precision Shooting is a very small percentage of the shooting population. That is likely one reason a variety of bullets do not exist.

Not many "Run and Gun" participants use a 32 caliber pistol, if any.

Hornady informed me that the lack of demand ($$$) for the 0.311" 60 XTP bullet was the reason to stop offering them as a loading component. The heavier 85 and 100 grain bullets are used in the Magnum calibers and, perhaps, this is why they have been spared.

I also notice that Speer do not offer the 60 grain Gold Dot bullet for loading any more.

With respect to the 32 ACP being more difficult to shoot, have you ascertained that the ammo you are using is accurate? i.e. testing with the Random Rest or a good solid sandbag rest using a 4X or greater scope?

My Personal Best is with the 32 S&W Long, 884. I have shot 879 several times with the 22lr; but, no higher.

I used a Haemmerli SP-20 and swapped out the components between relays. I always seemed to do better with the 32.

Cheers,

Dave

To add a minor point, " the feel" during the swage was important to me, if it felt different, it was. I had some bullets with an external coating, like Lee Liquid alox, rooster jacket, or white label 45-45-10. Those didn't swage as well as the raw speer plinkers (in s&w long).
+1 on wiping the base punch , and nose often.

Just a little Tin dramatically lowers the melting point of Lead. I wonder if by adding Tin you are causing some sort of soldering or galling, adhesion of the Lead to the steel ram. I cast a lot of bullets, and some molds don’t want to release bullets from some cavities.  Something suggested to me long ago as a cure for a sticky mold was application of some Kroil to it. Sometimes it works wonders. I wonder if the application of a very small amount of Kroil will make your adhesion to the ram go away?

Dave, with those no lube grooves bullets.  I’m curious what you use for lube.  Hitek is an option but kind of a pain.  I’m curious if you’ve used like a liquid Alox type lube?

Not sure how wells liquid tumble lube like Alox would work on these slick sided bullets.

Having a blast with the Swage process.

Greetings,

Lubrication has been a challenge.

As of today, I place 10,000 grains of bullets in a ZipLoc sandwich bag and squirt in 1ml of Lee Liquid Alox.

Zip the bag shut and gently tumble the bullets for a minute or so.

Empty the bag onto an old cookie sheet lined with wax paper.

Tip, turn the empty bag inside out and use it as a glove to spread the bullets about the sheet.

Let the bullets dry overnight. I go and roll them about once or twice to offer an attempt to dry evenly.

3ml syringes are available on eBay cheap for a box of 100.

150 65 grain bullets is very close to 10,000 grains.

Cheers,

Dave

Thanks Dave, I may give that a try as well as the Hitek.  I was concerned that with the no lube grooves that when seating any lube would get stripped off using Alox.

I know some older molds designed to be used with tumble type lubes had small micro lube grooves cut in.

Greetings,

Yes, the lube will strip off if the case is not sized large enough.

I have a myriad of sizing dies and I size the brass to match the bullet diameter being loaded.

Note I am precise as to how much lube. Earlier, I was merely squirting the lube into the bag and was getting too much on the bullet. During firing, the excess lube blew back into the chamber causing failures to chamber.

Another "fly in the ointment" was that in warm weather I would seat the bullet and the compressed air in the case pushed the bullet back up before I had a chance to crimp it. I sized the cases smaller to prevent this.

Cheers,

Dave