Which 45 ACP Brass Cases (if any) should be avoided in reloading for Bullseye

First topic message reminder :

A friend at the range gave me a large bag of "once used quality brass" as he described it.  So, I gave away my old brass, and figured I'd start out using the newer stuff, keeping track of how many times the rounds are reloaded.  From following this forum, maybe this was a silly decision on my part, as other than throwing old cases away because of cracks, the old stuff worked fine.

As time went on, I found I had a reloading problem where the old primers were occasionally not being pushed out of the case in the re-sizing station.  Instead, the bottom of the primer was bent downward, but the primer was still in the case.  So, I figured a reasonable thing to do was to extend the pin that pushes out the primer, making it just a little lower.  Things were better after that, until a few days ago when the same thing happened, and the case (with punched down primer center) made it to the next station, where my press (RCBS Pro2000) attempted to push a new primer into the case, and instead the new primer simply got impaled by the old primer which was still there.

So, everything was taken apart, and before throwing out the old case, I took this photo:



Since then, I have been told to scrap all my X-TREME cases.  "It appears that their original primers are heavily crimped in place. Even more than military cases. If this hasn’t broken or pushed your de-priming pin up farther into the pin holder I’ll be surprised. These cases may also be thicker causing failures for the slide to close."  I will be separating them from my remaining once-fired cases later today.

Is there a list someplace perhaps in this forum, for what cases to avoid using, for reasons such as this?

If the brass is thicker, that implies the case may be larger in diameter (or the inside diameter might be smaller), but unless I'm wrong about this, if my reloaded rounds pass the "plunk test" doesn't that imply that the rounds are not oversize?

My resizing die is from Redding.  Is there anything I should check on it, that might have gotten damaged from these cases?  

IF the brass is good, and the problem is that the original primers were too heavily crimped in place, if I use my single station press to simply push out the old primers, could this still leave a problem with the case because of the overly heavy crimping?

I personally hate dealing with the multiple flashhole sizes in Federal brass. I'm sure the difference in performance is minuscule if at all but it just bothers me.

Last few years I've been picking up the ones JB throws out because they shot 9's. Couple more years and I'll have a full box.

Crimped primer pockets HAVE to be swaged or reamed. Just recapping them leaves a sharp edge for the new primer to catch on.

WesG wrote:Last few years I've been picking up the ones JB throws out because they shot 9's. Couple more years and I'll have a full box.

Crimped primer pockets HAVE to be swaged or reamed. Just recapping them leaves a sharp edge for the new primer to catch on.

WesG - here's a photo I just took of one of my cases.  I used my single station press to re-size the case and push out the old primer, and I used an RCBS primer socket cleaning brush to remove the residue from the primer having been fired.

Since you understand these things infinitely better than I do, from looking at this photo can you tell whether the previous primer was "crimped", and whether the primer pocket needs to be swaged or reamed?  


I used to buy Winchester White Box 230 gn ammo and still have several hundred rounds in my ammo drawer.  I saved those cases, and started using only my own cases for reloading, rather than picking up lots of "range brass".  Back then, I didn't pay any attention to the head stamp.  I probably had a few hundred cases, and re-used them over and over.  Eventually they started to crack, probably because I over-belled them long ago.  A friend at the range gave me many hundred of "premium cases" recently, most of them just like the one in the photo.  I'll probably buy some new Starline brass that Bullseye Shooters like in the very near future, but I'd like to understand the reason why my old brass, like in this photo, is not recommended.  (I don't yet know how to swage or ream a primer socket, but if you're saying that is the problem with these cases, that would answer my question.)

Life is too short to mess with crap brass!

Mike, 

A crimped primer pocket causes issues seating the primer, to remove the crimp you use a primer pocket swagging tool. If you do not remove the crimp and try and seat a primer you could deform the primer, which could cause ignition issues. I typically run into this issue with 9mm brass, I have a piece of drill rod that is the perfect diameter for a go no go gauge for small pistol primers to determine if the brass has a crimp. 

To test your batch of brass, take a case of your head stamp in question and carefully attempt to seat a primer, if it does not seat easily it probably has a primer pocket crimp. Do not force the primer to seat. If the primer seats easily you should be good to go, if it does not want to seat, likely the primer pocket has a crimp that needs to be removed.

chiz1180 wrote:..........To test your batch of brass, take a case of your head stamp in question and carefully attempt to seat a primer, if it does not seat easily it probably has a primer pocket crimp. Do not force the primer to seat. If the primer seats easily you should be good to go, if it does not want to seat, likely the primer pocket has a crimp that needs to be removed.

I've already reloaded 300 of these cases over the past few weeks.  It took no more pressure to seat my CCI primers in these cases, than it did in my Winchester White Box case reloads.  (If this is a problem with these X-TREME cases, I've had that problem all along with my Winchester cases.)

The way my Pro2000 press is set up, I can "feel" the primer going into the case.  Any time that "feel" changes, I stop what I'm doing and investigate, which I've learned to do over the years.  There is always a reason.  Jim might be right, and maybe I never should have even used the Winchester White Box cases for reloading.  

By the way, thanks to the virus I have all the time in the world.  I'm not doing very much, mostly staying at home.  I'll post a thread here asking if anyone wants to sell some Starline brass, and plan B would be to buy some new brass.  Everyone here loves Starline, so I might as well join the crowd.

I'm asking the wrong question, which brass to avoid.  Doesn't matter any longer.

A better question is which brass is most recommended, and Starline seems to get the best  endorsements from Bullseye shooters.  So I just placed an order with Brownell's for 300 cases.

That leaves a different question - I read long ago that when you buy new brass, you need to trim it to length, then use a tool to de-burr the end of the case.  Does this apply to Starline, or does it come ready for use.



I don't really mean to be such a pain here.  This forum, and my friends, seems to best way to get good answers and information.  I guess I would be happier if I deleted the word "why" from my vocabulary.

I'm much more comfortable with my cameras and my digital editing software for images.  I can make pictures I enjoy much more easily than I can make targets I enjoy.  Since it's July 4th, I'll post this here today.    Happy 4th of July to all of you!!

Oh for heaven’s sake, Mike.  You do not need to trim new handgun brass.  Check and make sure, of course, if you must. But in my 50+ years of reloading I’ve NEVER trimmed a pistol case except after forming one from something else.  

I know you don’t understand many things and most of us are only happy to help.  But asking 1000 questions that can be answered by just going out and DOING it.  Right now you need practice.  Buy 1000 bullets & primers, a pound of powder, and enough brass so you can load 500 practice rounds.  Then go practice and train.  This is a participation event and skills can only be developed by doing.

Thanks.  One less thing to be concerned about.  :-)

One more reason to avoid the X-TREME and other heavy duty brass (all of which I've shipped to one of the tech people at Redding, who can use it).  I've been using a Redding competition expander die, which does a lot more than simply adding a bell at the top of the case.  Jay, at Redding, explained a few things I wasn't sure of, and sent me this image:


I had set this die with my X-TREME cases, which I now think have thicker brass, but when I tried to expand a standard Winchester case, there was practically no bell.  That could be explained by the thicker brass, as the Winchester would have a larger inside diameter than the X-TREME.  I re-adjusted the expander, and now this works smoothly.  My new brass should be here in about a week or so, along with some more dies.

Ignorance is not good.  I "assume" things will work, because I don't know any better.  Even case trimming - I've never done it, but I read somewhere that new cases need to be trimmed.  No idea what the article was about, maybe it was for rifles.  So I've been thinking incorrectly about this for many years.  

So I've got 3,000 more rounds of Terry's #801 bullets, 300 Starline Cases, and a few other presents for myself that will be here shortly.

If I was not such a titewad, (not tite group for sure) I would toss everything but the federal brass but in reality I have not had any problems with any brass including X-treme, S&B and others. I do dislike any small pistol primer 45 brass and always stay away from that.  I have noticed that S&B tends to have tighter primer pockets and IMI brass seems to be a bit thinner than other brands.  On that note a friend of mine gave me all of his used brass except his Wilson Combat branded brass, he likes that brand because nobody else at the range has that.

Mike,
Noticing your second image of the xtreme brass...looks to me like there's a ridge around the inside outer edge of the primer pocket and the flash hole looks terrible. Too large and jagged. I'd stop using that bunch of brass and check your other manufacture brass to see if their flash holes are also damaged. If so, there appears to be a problem effecting your flash holes probably from the depriming procedure.

Speaking of de-priming, make sure your priming pin is not to extended as it could bang into the bottom of the case and push the primer pocket out a bit.

Cazmont wrote:Mike,
Noticing your second image of the xtreme brass...looks to me like there's a ridge around the inside outer edge of the primer pocket and the flash hole looks terrible. Too large and jagged. I'd stop using that bunch of brass and check your other manufacture brass to see if their flash holes are also damaged. If so, there appears to be a problem effecting your flash holes probably from the depriming procedure.

Thanks.  All my X-TREME brass, and 90% of my other brass, is gone.  I should have my new Starline brass by early next week, if not sooner.

troystaten wrote:Speaking of de-priming, make sure your priming pin is not to extended as it could bang into the bottom of the case and push the primer pocket out a bit.

Thank you - something I hadn't considered.  I lowered the pin so it would fully press the old primers out, rather than just dent them.  I'll re-set it before I use the press again.  Now that I think about it, what you wrote is obvious, but I never considered it before - although I just lowered the pin by maybe 1/8" or so.  Everything will be set back to normal.

I have seen xtream cases with primer pockets over sized. primer would seat
but when you seat the bullet the pressure pushed primer out a smige.
I stop using them long ago. Remington brass S&B agulia  seams to hold up.

bob

I know this isn't answering the original question, but since a brass discussion has developed, is LAX ammo brass worth reloading?

30calfun wrote:I know this isn't answering the original question, but since a brass discussion has developed, is LAX ammo brass worth reloading?

I’ve loaded them in 9mm without issue.

james r chapman wrote:Life is too short to mess with crap brass!

Spoken like a true Pardini owner! Lol!