Looking for a 45 ACP "Light Target" bullet, 170 grain SWC similar to the Magnus #801

First topic message reminder :

Dave tells me it's because my Baer was never intended for Bullseye, but my Premiere II doesn't like the Magnus #801 bullets I've been using for a few years now for my wad guns.  Terry Labbe sent me some samples of the #806 - will try in my Springfield tomorrow, but I shot 20 of them today in my Baer, with no issues.  The problem is, Terry is out of everything, trying to catch up on orders, and nobodyI can find has the #806 bullets in stock.


Does anyone here know of where I might be able to buy some more, or of an appropriate (similar) bullet that might work in the Baer?  
They seem to cycle through the Baer with no problem, both indoors with my "dummy rounds" and at the range today.

.....no, I'm not about to cast my own.  That is light years over my skill level !!

(I'm also curious as to why the #801 bullet doesn't work in my Baer.  Terry tells me the 801 works fine in his Baer.  Dave tells me that a gunsmith making a bullseye gun makes changes that would allow these bullets to work.  For me, they either jam, like when I had the extractor issue in my Springfield, or today, when I got a "stovepipe".) 

Dang it just can't kick this monkey. Sometimes I think I'm just here to put the "con" in conversation.

I take great exception to his comments on the Wilson magazines.

That's all I use and they have worked perfectly AND are absolutely "controlled" throughout the loading process. 

And I like them due to the fact that after almost 15 years, the feed lips don't spread, they are very smooth with consistent spring pressure (important for bullseye set up guns)  AND I get them cheap when the local IPSC guys move from Single Stack to Open....

Mike,
Can you take a picture looking straight down on the mag lips and a picture of a round hanging from the breach face (slide off receiver). It might help us help you.
Wes

Wes, I have two packages arriving on Monday (tomorrow).  One contains four new Metalform magazines from David, and the other contains about 1200 Magnus #811 bullets from Ian.  I will try all of this out using my Baer on Wednesday at the range.

• If the Baer shoots properly with the #801 and the new mags, I'm done.  
  
• If the Baer still has issues, I will take the two photos.
  

As you requested, first photo will be looking straight down on my five magazine types, Metalform, Baer, Wilson, Springfield, and Colt.  

For the second photo, do you want me to remove the slide, then push a (dummy round) into the slide, center the dummy round, then take a photo of cartridge?

(The reason I'd like to get the Baer working, as I'd like to see how well I can shoot with steel sights, and I enjoy shooting with that gun.)

The purpose of posting the link was to basically show you that there are different magazine lip configurations just to clarify that magazines can have a significant effect on feeding. 

I never even bothered to look at the rest of it.

DA/SA wrote:The purpose of posting the link was to basically show you that there are different magazine lip configurations just to clarify that magazines can have a significant effect on feeding.......

Well, you certainly accomplished your goal.  Completely!   ....and I say that with a smile, and a "thank you".

Since all those links started on the "forum.m1911.org", maybe I'll find an illustration of the things I find so confusing.   
Feel free to follow the fun, or whatever happens, at https://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?111604-Trying-to-get-a-better-understanding-of-how-1911-magazines-work&p=1005624#post1005624

For shooting my 1911 wad guns, none of the above is relevant - the guns just work.  I've got every intention of continuing with dry firing most days of the week, and short range visits Monday, Wednesday, and Friday.  Less reading, more shooting, and much more dry-firing.

Thank you.

[quote="Wobbley"][quote="mikemyers"]

I need more time behind my gun, and less time behind my computer screen.[/quote]

[url=https://youtu.be/CAIBS8hqlUE]https://youtu.be/CAIBS8hqlUE[/url][/quote]

:lol!:

Hey Mike are you coming to the Florida State in October

For me, "I saw the light" is not a one-time thing.  Thanks to bullseye, it's a never ending process, constantly "seeing" a little bit more.   Just like computers, and image/video editing.  Seems like it's usually a few steps forward, combined with a step or two backward.  Just like when (I think it was Jim) convinced me that a sub-6-o'clock hold would be better for me.  Great improvement, as long as the "black" was the appropriate size.

James Hensler wrote:Hey Mike are you coming to the Florida State in October

Sadly, the ONLY places I am now going to include doctor's visits, physical therapy, and my local shooting range.  I'm doing my very best to do everything Dr. Faucci wrote that *he* does, to stay safe.  My club hasn't had a match since March, 'mustachio's club, where they are apparently still doing matches is out of my comfort zone, along with any other place where I a meat other people.  When the news from Florida becomes less scary, I may re-consider - but chances are I won't really go anywhere until they find a medicine to treat Covid-19.

There's another fellow at my range who I think is bringing his Model 52 this Wednesday.  I'll do the same.  Who knows, maybe others will join in.  We're all waiting for this web page to change: "http://www.hrpclub.info/10.html ".

Oh, and starting this week, I'll continue to participate in our "on line match" (it isn't, really, but I can pretend) held in these forums.  I'll try to do that on this coming Wednesday as well.

"meat other people",,, is that FL code for something 

zanemoseley wrote:"meat other people",,, is that FL code for something 

You'd have to ask my iMac.  It is constantly "correcting" what I type.  One of these days it's gonna get me into real trouble.

I think I typed the "a", then got distracted, and later typed "meet", which my auto-correct modified because that word didn't logically follow the "a".  My phone does the same thing.  Maybe it wants you all to think I'm a cannibal?

You mentioned that the pistol worked perfectly with hardball. The longer nose bullets are designed to try to mimic the contact point of hardball when feeding. Having said that, the issue can also be that you need to change recoil springs to use the lighter bullets. It could be that the timing of the feeding is being affected by the softer recoil not pushing the slide back far enough before it starts to return to battery. Just for kicks, try changing springs to something intended for target cartridges instead of hardball and see if that lets you use one or more of the lighter bullets with you desired powder charge.

Thanks for the information.  The gun I bought years ago, a Baer Premiere II, was not set up for Bullseye.  

As to springs, Dave Salyer suggested a recoil spring power, and that's what is now in the gun.  When the rounds load, everything else works fine.

I took a photo of the dirty barrel after shooting some Magnus #8-1 bullets, and sent the photo to Dave.  He was able to tell from that photo what was needed to get rounds to cycle through the gun.  He's done that, and perhaps this afternoon I'll re-assemble the gun.

I know I'm repeating myself, but other than for the jam where rounds wouldn't cycle through the gun, in every other way it works fine.  It has steel sights, so for me that is another challenge, but the gun works as expected.

mikemyers wrote:Not sure how to reply.

I can see why.

FWIW, for my Colt SCG the most accurate lead bullet is that Magnus 806.  I use it when I am inside where copper jackets are not allowed.
The Zero 185 JHP is overall the most accurate bullet I've found for my pistol, which I use outside on the 25 yard Bullseye line  It shoots a one-hole group from a ransom rest consistently.
I recently purchased some coated bullets from Bear Creek to try in my Smith 25-9 45 Colt revolver- 230g LRN RN HP hollow base and a 220g HBWC.  The 230g bullet can be loaded in ACP as well.
Something different to try for that if I feel like it.  I only went there looking for .40 bullets.
Good luck in your endeavor.

'pittpa'   - can you remind me of where I wrote that?

The Baer is now re-assembled.  Using one of my four new Metalform magazines, I loaded five dummy rounds with the Magnus #801 bullets, and they all cycled through the gun with no problem.

I'll also need to test this with my old magazines, to be fair.

I'm pleased that the #801's now seem to cycle through the gun, at least in my bedroom.  If I get to the range tomorrow, that will be a better test.  I also have six rounds with the #806 bullets, but it's the #801 that was so picky.  If I don't get there tomorrow, I may need to wait until my local hurricane goes by me......

For anyone with a similar problem - after your non-bullseye gun jams up, take a photo of the barrel, showing the areas that are "scraped clean" by the round hitting the chamber or whatever, and send to one of the gunsmiths here in the forum.  I sent the photo to Dave Salyer.  He wanted me to send him the barrel straight from the gun, no cleaning.

(This refers to a 1911 that was not designed or re-worked for lead Bullseye rounds such as the ones from Magnus Bullets.)

I'm not going to attempt to describe why the jam happens, as I probably won't explain it properly.  Guns, such as the standard over-the-counter guns from Les Baer, are probably not machined internally to work with Bullseye loads.  That's the problem.

mikemyers wrote:'pittpa'   - can you remind me of where I wrote that?

 

It was about the 20th post in the thread.
See if this works.  
https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t15268-looking-for-a-45-acp-light-target-bullet-170-grain-swc-similar-to-the-magnus-801#133644

Aha!  OK, now I understand - when I wrote that I didn't know how to respond, it was a response to this:

• "Before you post something, it might be good idea to decide the level of importance and take to account that many on the forum are genuinely feel that your problem is critical.  As such folks are jumping in to offer help.  Reading afterwards that issue at hand is purely an educational is somewhat disparaging.  "
  

I tried to be very precise when I entered this post, and it was a very specific thing I was trying to find.  I didn't and don't think any of what we've been discussing is "critical", as the only reason the post is even here, is because I bought a gun that was not designed for bullseye, and tried to shoot it with SWC ammo.

It's also completely true that I mostly wanted to understand WHY this problem was happening, meaning what the other fellow wrote, with that question being "purely educational".  Personally, I have always been more interested in understanding a problem, than in fixing a problem.  Once I understand, it's easier to "fix".


As of today, I understand why I was having the problem (my Baer Premiere II was not built to shoot SWC bullseye ammo), and I've found, and bought, what I was looking for, bullets such as the #811 Magnus.  I've also sent my barrel off to Dave Salyer to have it machined such that it will properly work with SWC bullets made for Bullseye.  As I found out last night, even the short Magnus #801 bullets cycle through the gun now without jamming.



Bottom line, I now have Magnus #806 and Magnus #811 bullets that cycle through my Baer with no problem, and my barrel is now machined to work  correctly even with the Magnus #801 bullets.


(I believe most people just want to know "WHAT" to do.  I'm wired differently, as I am always more interested in the "WHY".  Yep, "purely educational", so I'm guilty as charged, and I'm sorry if this bothers others here.  Fortunately for me, there are many people here such as CR and Jon who provide all the reasons for what they write, and they are probably frustrated with how I don't recognize things that they consider obvious.)

mikemyers wrote:Aha!  OK, now I understand - when I wrote that I didn't know how to respond, it was a response to this:

• "Before you post something, it might be good idea to decide the level of importance and take to account that many on the forum are genuinely feel that your problem is critical.  As such folks are jumping in to offer help.  Reading afterwards that issue at hand is purely an educational is somewhat disparaging.  "
  

I tried to be very precise when I entered this post, and it was a very specific thing I was trying to find.  I didn't and don't think any of what we've been discussing is "critical", as the only reason the post is even here, is because I bought a gun that was not designed for bullseye, and tried to shoot it with SWC ammo.

It's also completely true that I mostly wanted to understand WHY this problem was happening, meaning what the other fellow wrote, with that question being "purely educational".  Personally, I have always been more interested in understanding a problem, than in fixing a problem.  Once I understand, it's easier to "fix".


As of today, I understand why I was having the problem (my Baer Premiere II was not built to shoot SWC bullseye ammo), and I've found, and bought, what I was looking for, bullets such as the #811 Magnus.  I've also sent my barrel off to Dave Salyer to have it machined such that it will properly work with SWC bullets made for Bullseye.  As I found out last night, even the short Magnus #801 bullets cycle through the gun now without jamming.



Bottom line, I now have Magnus #806 and Magnus #811 bullets that cycle through my Baer with no problem, and my barrel is now machined to work  correctly even with the Magnus #801 bullets.


(I believe most people just want to know "WHAT" to do.  I'm wired differently, as I am always more interested in the "WHY".  Yep, "purely educational", so I'm guilty as charged, and I'm sorry if this bothers others here.  Fortunately for me, there are many people here such as CR and Jon who provide all the reasons for what they write, and they are probably frustrated with how I don't recognize things that they consider obvious.)

I get it.  I was just agreeing with you, while leaving out most of the lengthy post.