Optimum velocity for 1x16 Kart barreled 45 acp with 185 and 200 gr lswc?

For those seeking to develop heir short and long long line loads, Is there an optimum  velocity range or band for loads using 185 gr and 200 gr Lswc’s in a 5” kart 1x16 45 Acp barrel? 

Also in regards to velocity, which  measurement has potentially the greatest influence on accuracy or repeatable smallest group size.- muzzle, mid range or velocity on impact?  Which statistic calculation best captures  the velocity measurements which influence accuracy?- the mean, median or the  mode velocity?

Yes, I know I can just go out and shoot, but after spending a lifetime of being trained to analyze things and find the best way, I can’t help myself wanting  to know, why?

Measurements for greatest accuracy=bullet dia to bore dia.

Most folks here shoot 200 SWC around 700 fps.  If you look at the loads by the best, they are in the 700 range.  Some faster and some slower.  4 grains of Bullseye gets me 750 fps with a .463 crimp.

For 185, I use the same velocity as Federal Gold Medal Match  which is 775.  

I shoot  the Federal and try to get my loads to group as well.  

If you have a match grade barrel, you can't go wrong with a .452 bullet.

David

I get the same velocity with 4.0 grains of Bullseye with a Kart barreled 1911, which is 750 fps. The quality of the base of the bullet is a very important factor in accuracy. Unless you are using a machine rest or other reliable method to test your loads at 50 yards, you really can't get a definitive result. Some very experienced shooters can get reliable accuracy test results at 50 yards, using a bench rest and a high magnification scope. I never taper crimp below .470" using Dillon dies.

Almost 20 years ago we had this on the list


At 10:26 PM 6/3/03 -0700, Jack H wrote:

Is there any such thing as a "sweet spot" velocity for
certain type bullets to settle in to tight groups?

for the 200gr LSWC?
700-750 FPS
the 185 Star HP?
750-800 FPS
the 185 Nosler JHP?
780-820 FPS

Also if you build a load that gives a certain velocity
with one powder, and match the velocity with another
powder, all else being the same, would they give
similar results group wise? Why? why not?


Not necessarily, although, they could. It is not all about velocity. It is all about the barrel and the gun! More about the barrel. Even though you have achieved the same velocity, it is entirely possible that the pressure curves are not the same, or even the peak pressure curves. Now, it is possible if the 2 powders that you have chosen are very similar in burning rate. Like BE and Titegroup, for example. Or, Titegroup and S1000; or Clays, AAN100 or VVN310. Then it is possible that even the same powder charge will produce exactly the same results.

Regards,
Neil
NSK Co
410-833-2100 | Fax: 410-833-2101
mailto:nsk@nsksales.com /Compose?To=nsk@nsksales.com>

If you are new to bullseye, and perhaps pistol shooting in general, I offer the following.

Pistols are not Benchrest rifles.  So long as they are put together well and fitted correctly they will shoot accurately enough for our purposes.  Most top level bullseye pistols will shoot into 1-1/2 to 2 inches at 50 yards with high grade match ammunition.  That is 3 to 4 MOA.  The ammunition from a test barrel fixed to a heavy pedestal might only cut that dispersion to .75 to 1.25 inches and that’s a BIG maybe!  

The ten ring is 3.36 inches.  That means that if your ammunition and gun was perfect, you have to have a hold bigger than 5 minute of angle to lose a shot.  With ordinary guns and match ammo, a 3 minute of angle hold will lose shots.  However, most people have a visible wobble when using the optical sights of much more than that.  Even the current pistol champion has a wobble of at least the 9 ring.  Starting out, your wobble is going to be bigger than the aiming mark. By a lot.  So, don’t worry about improving the ammo.  So long as it groups well at 25 yards (about an inch) from a rest and using an optical sight, concentrate on physical training, dry fire, and building skills to put a good shot on paper at will.  

So go load a few thousand with a 185 or 200 lead SWC with 4.0 Bullseye, (or 4.1 WST, or 3.8 700X, or 4.1 Titegroup) and just go shoot and train.  I do recommend testing your gun with these loads as one powder might do better in your gun for functioning.  But all of them are adequate for training and entry level match shooting.

New2BE wrote:For those seeking to develop heir short and long long line loads, Is there an optimum  velocity range or band for loads using 185 gr and 200 gr Lswc’s in a 5” kart 1x16 45 Acp barrel? 

Also in regards to velocity, which  measurement has potentially the greatest influence on accuracy or repeatable smallest group size.- muzzle, mid range or velocity on impact?  Which statistic calculation best captures  the velocity measurements which influence accuracy?- the mean, median or the  mode velocity?

Yes, I know I can just go out and shoot, but after spending a lifetime of being trained to analyze things and find the best way, I can’t help myself wanting  to know, why?

In the course of my day job, I once was able to ask a primer chemist at Federal what was the factory load for the GM 45 ammunition.  He told me that there wasn’t one.  He then explained that they use bulk powders, not available to consumers, and load to a pressure versus time curve.  They obviously have metrology equipment that we don’t have access to.

Jack H wrote:Almost 20 years ago we had this on the list


At 10:26 PM 6/3/03 -0700, Jack H wrote:

Is there any such thing as a "sweet spot" velocity for
certain type bullets to settle in to tight groups?

for the 200gr LSWC?
700-750 FPS
the 185 Star HP?
750-800 FPS
the 185 Nosler JHP?
780-820 FPS

Also if you build a load that gives a certain velocity
with one powder, and match the velocity with another
powder, all else being the same, would they give
similar results group wise? Why? why not?


Not necessarily, although, they could. It is not all about velocity. It is all about the barrel and the gun! More about the barrel. Even though you have achieved the same velocity, it is entirely possible that the pressure curves are not the same, or even the peak pressure curves. Now, it is possible if the 2 powders that you have chosen are very similar in burning rate. Like BE and Titegroup, for example. Or, Titegroup and S1000; or Clays, AAN100 or VVN310. Then it is possible that even the same powder charge will produce exactly the same results.

Regards,
Neil
NSK Co
410-833-2100 | Fax: 410-833-2101
mailto:nsk@nsksales.com /Compose?To=nsk@nsksales.com>

Perfect! Just what I needed, thank you.