Home Swaged 38 HBWC
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Schaumannk
DA/SA
inthebeech
chopper
Black_Talon
Wobbley
RodJ
Steve B
Greg Walloch
Jon Eulette
fc60
15 posters
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Home Swaged 38 HBWC
Greetings,
Tested some home swaged 38 HBWC yesterday.
Test parameters...
Cheers,
Dave
Tested some home swaged 38 HBWC yesterday.
Test parameters...
- K38 barrel machined round to fit the barrel tester.
- Chambered with a SAAMI 38 WadCutter ream.
- Bullets first cast into slugs from Stick On Wheel Weights.
- The hollow base is a copy of the Remington Bullet.
- Final swaged bullets lubed lightly with Lee Liquid Alox.
- 2.77 grains of WST.
- Winchester cases sized to 0.376" with no cannelure.
- Federal 200 primer.
- Taper Crimped to 0.370".
- 50 shots fired at 50 yards.
Cheers,
Dave
fc60- Posts : 1458
Join date : 2011-06-11
Location : South Prairie, WA 98385
bruce martindale, ric1911a1, chopper, ak41, Fotomaniac, TonyH, chiz1180 and like this post
Re: Home Swaged 38 HBWC
OUTSTANDING Dave!
Jon Eulette- Posts : 4399
Join date : 2013-04-15
Location : Southern Kalifornia
Re: Home Swaged 38 HBWC
It’s always a very interesting post when you bring in your bullet-making! Fascinating stuff!
Greg Walloch- Posts : 183
Join date : 2011-06-11
Re: Home Swaged 38 HBWC
What was the finished bullet diameter?
Steve B- Posts : 627
Join date : 2011-06-16
Location : Elkhart, IN
Re: Home Swaged 38 HBWC
Crazy - 50 rounds! What scale do you use to measure into the hundredths of grains?
RodJ- Posts : 921
Join date : 2021-06-26
Location : TX
Re: Home Swaged 38 HBWC
Did you get a velocity reading per chance?
Wobbley- Admin
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Join date : 2015-02-12
Re: Home Swaged 38 HBWC
Greetings,
Final swaged diameter is 0.358".
I weigh ten charges and divide by ten. i.e. Ten charges weighed 27.7 grains, repeatedly.
Velocity Averaged 740 FPS twenty feet from the muzzle.
The more I swage, the better I get. Still have a ways to go...
Cheers,
Dave
Final swaged diameter is 0.358".
I weigh ten charges and divide by ten. i.e. Ten charges weighed 27.7 grains, repeatedly.
Velocity Averaged 740 FPS twenty feet from the muzzle.
The more I swage, the better I get. Still have a ways to go...
Cheers,
Dave
fc60- Posts : 1458
Join date : 2011-06-11
Location : South Prairie, WA 98385
chopper likes this post
Re: Home Swaged 38 HBWC
I noticed the lack of “characteristic “ scuffing even though you used an old S&W barrel.
Wobbley- Admin
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Join date : 2015-02-12
Re: Home Swaged 38 HBWC
I'd sure love to see some detailed pics of the finished bullets, before lubing.
Black_Talon- Posts : 214
Join date : 2011-06-10
Location : SoCal
Re: Home Swaged 38 HBWC
Dave are you going to test with Bullseye powder also, not that you'd improve on such a nice grouping. Great job swagging, I'm curious if you've barrel tested any .358" cast bullets also. I really like following your posts, they're so good.
Stan
Stan
chopper- Posts : 820
Join date : 2013-10-29
Age : 72
Location : Western Iowa
Re: Home Swaged 38 HBWC
I want to see the barrel tester.
inthebeech- Posts : 657
Join date : 2012-03-17
Age : 59
Location : Harleysville, Pennsylvania
Re: Home Swaged 38 HBWC
It would be interesting to see the results of re-swaging the commercially available HBWC's such as Zero, Precision Delta, Speer, Hornady, etc.
DA/SA- Posts : 1506
Join date : 2017-10-09
Age : 68
Location : Southeast Florida
jglenn21 likes this post
Re: Home Swaged 38 HBWC
Greetings,DA/SA wrote:It would be interesting to see the results of re-swaging the commercially available HBWC's such as Zero, Precision Delta, Speer, Hornady, etc.
We have had excellent results swaging the 32 caliber Speer 98 grain HBWC up to 0.314".
The current Speer bullet is lubed with a Moly-like material and actually helps the swage process by acting as a lubricant.
The bullets swaged and lubed with "sticky" lube gum up the swage dies and make the process futile.
I did swage the 38 caliber Speer 148 HBWC and results were not that exciting. Perhaps I could revisit it one day.
The primary reason for swaging my own bullets is that any day, the commercial vendors can stop production. Such as Remington and Winchester.
Cheers,
Dave
fc60- Posts : 1458
Join date : 2011-06-11
Location : South Prairie, WA 98385
Re: Home Swaged 38 HBWC
Thanks Dave!
I was just curious if the results would be worth the effort for those that do not cast their own.
I was just curious if the results would be worth the effort for those that do not cast their own.
Last edited by DA/SA on Mon Oct 04, 2021 8:21 am; edited 1 time in total
DA/SA- Posts : 1506
Join date : 2017-10-09
Age : 68
Location : Southeast Florida
Re: Home Swaged 38 HBWC
Greetings,Wobbley wrote:I noticed the lack of “characteristic “ scuffing even though you used an old S&W barrel.
I went back and looked at the individual ten shot groups. There is still evidence of "yaw/scuffing" on some of the holes.
The target I posted initially was the backer I started with.
When I was finished and cleaning up, the backer was too nice to toss in the bin.
Cheers,
Dave
fc60- Posts : 1458
Join date : 2011-06-11
Location : South Prairie, WA 98385
Re: Home Swaged 38 HBWC
I have had very good luck swaging the powder coated bullets. All the bullet manufacturers are using a slightly different coating, and it seems to stand up well to going through the swager, although some coatings are superior to others.
So far the best coating appears to be whatever Bob Palermo at Penn bullets is using. I lose the coating in the hollow base, but the rest of the bullet, and the part that contacts the sides of the barrel remains intact, going through the swager. The swaging dies remain clean, and no gunk build up.
So far the best coating appears to be whatever Bob Palermo at Penn bullets is using. I lose the coating in the hollow base, but the rest of the bullet, and the part that contacts the sides of the barrel remains intact, going through the swager. The swaging dies remain clean, and no gunk build up.
Schaumannk- Posts : 615
Join date : 2011-06-11
Location : Cheyenne, WY
Re: Home Swaged 38 HBWC
Greetings,chopper wrote:Dave are you going to test with Bullseye powder also, not that you'd improve on such a nice grouping. Great job swagging, I'm curious if you've barrel tested any .358" cast bullets also. I really like following your posts, they're so good.
Stan
Past experiments show that one can get X-ring groups with a variety of powders, providing they meter well in the dispenser.
I have tested many cast bullets and the results are "okay" (ten-ring @ 50 yards). Casting is a chore for me as I reject roughly 60% of them due to defects. A lot of work.
Swaging produces a much higher percentage of "keepers".
Looking in my archive, I found no targets of cast wad cutters using the K38 barrel.
(I modified the K-38 barrel due to the 1:18.75" twist, which is common to the Model 52. The K-38 is 0.3575" groove diameter and the M-52 is 0.3545". I did not want to ruin a good M-52 barrel for the barrel tester.)
Cheers,
Dave
fc60- Posts : 1458
Join date : 2011-06-11
Location : South Prairie, WA 98385
Re: Home Swaged 38 HBWC
Dave,
If you wanted to cast your own slugs for the 32 and 38, which molds and lead mix should we be looking for best possible success?
Thanks,
Chase
If you wanted to cast your own slugs for the 32 and 38, which molds and lead mix should we be looking for best possible success?
Thanks,
Chase
Chase Turner- Posts : 385
Join date : 2019-11-15
Re: Home Swaged 38 HBWC
Impressive, a bullseye smith I know has said that a 148 grain HBWC in 38 special is one of the most accurate pistol cartridges around.
troystaten- Posts : 824
Join date : 2012-04-18
Re: Home Swaged 38 HBWC
Greetings Chase,Chase Turner wrote:Dave,
If you wanted to cast your own slugs for the 32 and 38, which molds and lead mix should we be looking for best possible success?
Thanks,
Chase
Hardness is key. I try to use alloys of about 6 HBN.
Currently, I have been using Stick On Wheel Weights (SOWW), 5.7 HBN, and they swage okay. Problem is the actual alloy is a mystery. I do have the tools to measure hardness.
Another friend, that drank the swaging Kool-Aid, uses 20 Lead : 1 Tin (20:1) alloy with good results. This was purchased from RotoMetals and is a known alloy.
We have also played with 30:1 alloy.
The Lead:Tin alloys are nice as Tin helps the metal flow better. SOWW possibly has Antimony and it takes two swages to produce a nice clean well filled out bullet.
I bought some Lee Six Cavity Blank Moulds and machined cylindrical cavities in them. This way, you can change alloys readily.
Swaging is not for everyone. I enjoy it despite the great amount of labor involved. Good news is that I no longer rely on the availability of factory made bullets.
Cheers,
Dave
fc60- Posts : 1458
Join date : 2011-06-11
Location : South Prairie, WA 98385
Re: Home Swaged 38 HBWC
Dave,fc60 wrote:
Swaging is not for everyone. I enjoy it despite the great amount of labor involved. Good news is that I no longer rely on the availability of factory made bullets.
Cheers,
Dave
The ability to produce your own is no small thing these days and considering your quality that is an understatement!
BUT were I to shoot 10 of 'em I would flinch on that 7 o'clock hit for an 8?!?
Compliments on your craftmanship!
Ron Habegger
Colt711- Posts : 641
Join date : 2012-06-07
Age : 82
Location : Hudson, Florida
Re: Home Swaged 38 HBWC
fc60 wrote:Greetings,
The more I swage, the better I get. Still have a ways to go...
Cheers,
Dave
Dave,
What do you think might be possible re: group size?
Ron
Colt711- Posts : 641
Join date : 2012-06-07
Age : 82
Location : Hudson, Florida
Re: Home Swaged 38 HBWC
Greetings,
I would like to see groups at 50 yards inside the X-ring. That is all ten shots and none of them touching the X-ring.
After a bit more thought, I have been very pleased to equal/exceed the group size of commercial loaded ammo.
Considering the HBWC is a dynamically unstable projectile, X-ring groups at 50 yards with either the 32 or 38 HBWC is a job well done.
Cheers,
Dave
I would like to see groups at 50 yards inside the X-ring. That is all ten shots and none of them touching the X-ring.
After a bit more thought, I have been very pleased to equal/exceed the group size of commercial loaded ammo.
Considering the HBWC is a dynamically unstable projectile, X-ring groups at 50 yards with either the 32 or 38 HBWC is a job well done.
Cheers,
Dave
fc60- Posts : 1458
Join date : 2011-06-11
Location : South Prairie, WA 98385
Re: Home Swaged 38 HBWC
Dave,
Impressed with your results. I cast 148gr HBWC's, and am curious as to how they would compare to your home swaged results. If you are up for a another test, I would happily send you some.
Don
Impressed with your results. I cast 148gr HBWC's, and am curious as to how they would compare to your home swaged results. If you are up for a another test, I would happily send you some.
Don
USSR- Posts : 352
Join date : 2017-07-14
Age : 74
Location : Finger Lakes Region of NY
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