N310 vs Bullseye?

If a powder measure set for 4.0 of N310, the same setting gets how much of BE ?

Is it worth using 310 instead of BE?

Thanks

It's been awhile since I switched but I recall you need a tenth or two more for Bullseye. I switched since 310 is a bit cleaner. I like the performance of 310.

Based on my records their density is essentially identical

Bullseye is snappy compared to N310. My subjective opinion. Settings are the same on the powder measure. 

Best 
Arthur

Thanks, what did N310 cost 3-4 years ago?  What now?

Based on the relative VMDs of the powders, if the powder charge is set for 4.0 grains of N310, it should drop about 4.56 gains of Bullseye.

SteveT wrote:Based on my records their density is essentially identical

Density? Sorry no way.

Similar powder charge weight to do the same job, but BE is much denser than VV N310. Definitely DO NOT use a powder measure setting for VV310 and then drop BE with that setting. 

I am looking for the density chart now. I'll post when I secure the data.

Below are the density numbers for the following powders. This came from Lee chart. This is volume, NOT weight. So  lower number is more dense. IOW, same weight is less volume.

Clays        .1462
VV N310   .1214
WST         .1205
BE            .1064
W231        .0931

It's probably good advice to not take anything at face value that some guy posts on the internet, including my advice.

Based on my records from my old Dillon SDB powder measure with a MR Dial adjuster, I got the following results. This test was run many years ago. It's entirely possible my records are bad. I have not used Bullseye for a long time so I have not repeated it. I got 2 digits of precision by weighing 10 throws and dividing by 10 to get the average.
     2 turns out dropped 3.50gr N310 and 3.52gr Bullseye
     3 turns out dropped 4.30gr N310 and 4.32gr Bullseye

I dug around a little bit and found a reference to this document, which was attributed to Richard Lee, but the link to the Lee Precision website is no longer valid (so take it with a grain of salt as well) - EDIT I see AllGoodHits beat me to it
http://www.tacticoolproducts.com/powder.pdf

It lists the density of Bullseye as 9.398 cc/gr and N310 as 8.237 cc/gr (or .1064 and .1214 gr/cc). About 20% difference between them.

So who you gonna believe? Personally always weigh a few charges before I start loading.

Ok, so I am not a mathematician, however, I do have a calculator.

Given the density as:

VV N310 as .1214
BE as          .1064

then, 4.0 grains of VV N310 would have this volume 4 X .1214 = .4856

so, it would take .4856 / .1064 = 4.56 grains of BE to have the same volume

Look at it another way. If your powder measure is set to drop 4 grains of BE, thus 4 X .1064 = .4256
then, if you use VV N310 powder at the same powder measure setting the drop would be .4256 / .1214 = 3.5 grains

Am I wrong?

Bruce,

 I have new lbs of Bullseye from Shyds last fall.  If you need 1 , I can leave it at the range on Friday am.

I'll have to check my supply.  

I had an opportunity to get 4# of 310 for $140.

I never used it before, don't know if that's a good deal or not.
Thanks

bruce martindale wrote:I'll have to check my supply.  

I had an opportunity to get 4# of 310 for $140.

I never used it before, don't know if that's a good deal or not.
Thanks

These days, that's not a bad price for any powder, but especially N 310. I like Bullseye and Dave Salyer told me a very long time ago, since I didn't have access to N 310,  that the Nosler bullet would shoot almost as good with Bullseye as N 310. His advice was based on his testing with Al Dorman. Having said all of that, I'd jump on 4 lbs. of N 310 for that price. I think that is pre-COVID!

BE Mike wrote:These days, that's not a bad price for any powder, but especially N 310. I like Bullseye and Dave Salyer told me a very long time ago, since I didn't have access to N 310,  that the Nosler bullet would shoot almost as good with Bullseye as N 310. His advice was based on his testing with Al Dorman. Having said all of that, I'd jump on 4 lbs. of N 310 for that price. I think that is pre-COVID!

And, via some barrel testing for me, Dave got 0.989" CTC at 50 yards for my N310 Nosler loads and only 1.004" CTC for my BE Nosler loads.

A discussion I have current interest in.  

Density, volume, and e=mc/2 aside....who else has found Bullseye a good replacement for N310?  My favorite 50 yard PPC load for a Les Bear PII has been Zero 185 JHP over 4.5 N310.  My last lb of N310 will be loaded in the next few weeks.  I haven't seen any locally and don't really care to order online.  I do have plenty of BE at the moment since I use it for .38. I'll no doubt do my own testing but just interested to hear some other opinions.

Lane579 wrote:A discussion I have current interest in.  

Density, volume, and e=mc/2 aside....who else has found Bullseye a good replacement for N310?  My favorite 50 yard PPC load for a Les Bear PII has been Zero 185 JHP over 4.5 N310.  My last lb of N310 will be loaded in the next few weeks.  I haven't seen any locally and don't really care to order online.  I do have plenty of BE at the moment since I use it for .38. I'll no doubt do my own testing but just interested to hear some other opinions.

YRMV but 4.4 BE behind a Zero or Nosler 185 JHP at OAL of around 1.200" and .470 crimp should be a very good load.

My N310 vs. BE loads were very comparable at 4.3gr for N310 and 4.5gr for BE.  Both of those printed right around 1 inch at 50 yards with a barrel tester and held x-ring size from the bench through the gun.

According to the Little Dandy rotor selection chart the 86008 (# Roth throws 4.0 N310 and 4.5 Bullseye.  Now N310 is faster than Bullseye.  But even still you need to redevelop YOUR load for YOUR pistol.  I’ve found a difference between 4.2 and 3.8 Bullseye in target accuracy.  4.2 was slightly better.

Ed Hall wrote:

BE Mike wrote:These days, that's not a bad price for any powder, but especially N 310. I like Bullseye and Dave Salyer told me a very long time ago, since I didn't have access to N 310,  that the Nosler bullet would shoot almost as good with Bullseye as N 310. His advice was based on his testing with Al Dorman. Having said all of that, I'd jump on 4 lbs. of N 310 for that price. I think that is pre-COVID!

And, via some barrel testing for me, Dave got 0.989" CTC at 50 yards for my N310 Nosler loads and only 1.004" CTC for my BE Nosler loads.

A while back a fellow at the club I belong to shot a brand new Rock River wad gun out of a Ransom Rest. He used 4.6 grains of Bullseye under a Nosler 185 JHP and got a sub one inch 10 shot group at 50 yards. He showed me the group and as I recall it was sub .8". I've never gotten anything close to that out of my 1911 wad guns in .45 ACP, but he has much more experience with the RR that I. I think I remember someone saying that N310 is a little more temperature sensitive than Bullseye. Not being as accomplished a shooter as you, Ed, I've been happy with 2" machine rest groups from my .45 ACP wad guns.

FYI - I was at Shyda's today and they had a single 8# jug of Bullseye on the shelf for $228

VV310is more temperature sensitive. 

Use 0.1gn extra for winter loads. 

BE is more useful as its a better powder for 9mm whereas 310 is not recommended for 9mm. 

I think 310 is better for 38 special HBWC,  though a little snappier.

rich.tullo wrote:VV310is more temperature sensitive. 

Use 0.1gn extra for winter loads. 

BE is more useful as its a better powder for 9mm whereas 310 is not recommended for 9mm. 

I think 310 is better for 38 special HBWC,  though a little snappier.

Vhitavouri data for 148 Wadcutter indicates that it is VERY touchy powder for 38 Wadcutter loading.  Increases of as little as 0.2 grains can make a load go from normal 38 Special pressures to +P territory.  Which I likely one reason Vhitavouri doesn’t recommend it anymore.  Now 0.2 grains isn’t much and can easily be within the variation of a typical reloading session using a measure.  It is a lot like Red Dot in this regard.

I didn't realize Red Dot was fussy!  I used to use 3.8 with a 45-200 swc.
Is it a problem in the 16-19 gr 12 Ga AA region?

Not so much in 45, but in 38 WC it is.  Also 9mm.  With a 115 grain bullet 4.0 is about the limit.  4,3 is getting into very high pressure in 9mm with Red Dot.