NOT HAPPY WITH HIGH STANDARD

I have a pristine High Standard Supermatic Citation. It came with 1 magazine . That magazine works flawlessly. I wanted more mags. So I ordered 3 direct from High Standard . None of the new magazines I received would work. None would feed and 1 wouldn't fit easily into the gun. When forced to fit, it wouldn't eject with either the slide open or closed. I had bought the tool for adjusting the mags. Too many hours spent attempting to get the mags to work. They just wouldn't feed.  

Here is a list of the ammo tried .
CCI SV
Lapua Signum
Lapua CenterX
Lapua OSP
Agulia SE SV
PMC Target
Eley Bullseye

So of course it was brought to Perry for remedy. It was dropped off at High Standard. Mag that wouldn't fit was replaced. Was told it was good to go. Numerous trips to function range . Numerous adjustments and still none of the mags would work. Even the replaced magazine.They just won't feed.

Excuses given by High Standard.
It's the slide stop. Nope
It's the extractor. Nope 
Your ammo is too greasy (CenterX). Ok tried CCI SV. Nope
The barrel doesn't fit the frame correctly.

Now it's "Ok  I can't fix it.. And it was handed back. 
So now I'm stuck with 3 factory magazines, tool that don't work. I'm out over $200+. I feel kind of screwed.

Make your own decision.

Get in touch with Bob Snider at High Standard of Montana.  406-590-0351  And as you already know avoid the "stein" like the plague!

+1 on KC's comments. 

New magazines are nothing like the older ones.  And it's hard to find any original ones that have not been mangled beyond redemption by shooters and others. 

Another thing to think about.  Originally the high standards were made, tweaked and generally set up when most .22 ammo looked like the old Remington Target.  So as for ammo, try some of the SK stuff.  The SK nose shape, overall length and lesser amounts of lube will sometimes help.

I ordered 2 firing pins in the past and neither one worked well in my Sharpshooter or Victor. They both stick in the channel, and the channel is clean with new spring installed too. I'll take KC's word and try those guys too.
 Stan

I got the magazine tool off ebay. Their instructions are ok, but it is not a 10 minute job. Pack a lunch.

I too had the same problem with my 2 new magazines bought from HS in Texas. I sent them back and was told they functioned perfectly in their pistols, and the problem was my gun. I was graciously offered a refund so I took it.

I ordered 2 from HS of Montana, 1 needed no adjustment and worked perfectly and the other needed one small adjustment. Both now run flawlessly.

I have had a couple business dealings with Bob Snider and would recommend him for any of your HS needs.

Jim, is your gun a military or the old slant grip?

Military

I’m sorry to hear the trouble.  I have purchased 4 of the Houston mags and all worked perfectly in a citation and a Victor with a touch of tweaking. If I paid for shipping both ways, would you mind sending one of them?  I still have my Victor and would like to test one in it.  I’m no gunsmith but your problem is driving me nuts.

No problem if you’re not interested. I totally understand!

Did you do plop test? I had similar problem on one of guns, caused by chamber build up

CHAMBER CLEAN, HAVE PICS CANT GET THEM TO LOAD

Disassemble the mags and check the spring. I had a new HS mag that had the spring installed backwards. The top of mag spring should match the follower. Slanted to the front.

I bought a HS Victor from Roddy Toyota, and he had the gun working flawlessly.  You might want to contact him.  He also got the red dot sight as low as possible.  His gun is the only HS that seems to work flawlessly all the time.

About Alan Aronstein, he seems to have some gunsmiths who work for him that are qualified, along with others apparently that I was not so satisfied with.  When he is back in his shop, maybe ship him everything, and give him a chance to resolve it.

You wrote "I have a pristine High Standard Supermatic Citation. It came with 1 magazine . That magazine works flawlessly. "

If I understand you correctly, you have a gun that works properly with one magazine (buy which may have an oversize firing pin)??


I bought the magazine tool from Alan.  With all the help from people on Rimfire Central, they explained things, and I did eventually get a friend's magazine to work.  It's just a tool, I had to learn how to use it.  If you read all those posts on Rimfire Central, and you do ONE thing at a time, maybe that will help.  

In my opinion, not all High Standard magazines work in all High Standard guns.  Some fit my X-Series, and others fit my Victor.  I don't let them get mixed up.

Finally, if you find my discussion, you will find links to a much older discussion on magazines.  Eventually all that stuff started to make sense to me, and once my other un-related issues were resolved, the guns and magazine work fine.

(To be perfectly honest, I gave up on all of the above when I realized my Nelson Conversion kit worked perfect all the time, and never gave me any trouble.  I stopped using the HS guns, and just enjoyed the Nelson.  This was fine, until I got an itch to try my old Model 41, which nowadays is just as accurate and just as reliable.)

If you start a new thread on Rimfire Central, and you describe your issues, they will point you in the right direction to find the links I'm referring to.  If I get time in the next day or so, I'll find them, and post the link here - but I think starting your own new thread would be best.  Go to the sub-forum specifically for High Standard and post there.

This is the sub-forum to post in:

     https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/high-standard.49/


....and this link should include all the links and information that I learned about:

     https://www.rimfirecentral.com/threads/can-magazine-lips-be-adjusted-in-the-shop-rather-than-at-the-range.1223277/#post-12315423 


I ain't no HS expert, just a novice/enthusiast, so I can't help you, but the instructions and links in that thread I found very useful.
(My problem was mostly caused by a broken firing pin spring, but I didn't notice that until a long time after starting the discussion thread.)

kc.crawford.7 wrote:Get in touch with Bob Snider at High Standard of Montana.  406-590-0351  And as you already know avoid the "stein" like the plague!

 +1, they are the best in High Standard!!

Blame the pistol….hmmm. BS!
HS feedramp and barrel chamber alignment is fixed. Extractor can snap over rim no problem, but not ideal. Weak recoil springs still typically feed.
Magazines are culprit 99.9% of the time.
HS needs to step up to the plate.
Definitely won’t be doing business with them. Customer service obviously needs to improved.
Jon

Feed lips look too tight: need spread open to release the cartridge.
Jon

I want a crack at these magazines and gun. But I’m really puzzled as to why HS wasn’t able to get their magazines to feed. There’s a whole website by Jim Barta on high standard pistols and especially the magazines explaining various fitment issues including too high / too low and excess space fore and aft. Not to mention feed lip release adjustment and timing.

I’m not saying that you should go spend another couple hours fiddling, I’m just saying it can be subtle.

Wish you were closer. I’d be happy to give it a crack.

Jon Eulette wrote:Feed lips look too tight: need spread open to release the cartridge.
Jon

LTC Miller adjusted my first HS mags in the early 70s.  They still are my most trusted mags in any of my HS.  What Coach said about HS back then came from Joe Benner's teachings.  One of the key mag settings is to put a slight drag on the cartridge with the front lips.  Sometimes this is not necessary if all the other tolerance stack things line up good.
More recently, but still several years back, Larry told me on the phone to do the same on 208s mags.  That fixed my 208s feeding.

One thing to be aware of when adjusting the mag lips using the tool is that the lips must be symmetrical. It's not enough to get the width correct, but each set must have the right and left side lips bent inwards the same amount in relation to the mag body. If you don't, the round will be guided into the chamber off center.

Instead of the Stein bragging about how great he is doing selling .22 ammo and spend more time helping customers with problems he would have a better reputation.

I am glad that this thread was brought to my attention. I guess that I will start with the 3 magazines that started this thread. If I recall the correct magazine adjustment event( I think that I might have adjusted 10/12 magazines during Pistol week), I replaced 1 magazine that had a loose weld. Then I adjusted all 3 magazines to the beginning measurements on Jim Barta's Sheet and checked for centrality. I said that they are good to go as far as the measurements. You need to go to the Test Range and do the final tweeking IF needed. This takes some range time. Our magazines are equal or better than the CT magazines. We have sold approx 1,500 magazines since Jan 1, 2022. I am sure that there will always be some issues with any production. I beleive that we have had problems with less than  20 magazines this year !!! At Camp Perry, I had three feeding issues that were missing slide stop springs, one caked up magazine, one broken old style(Model 106) magazine catch, two worn out recoil springs, one broken recoil spring guide- just to name a few. We repair and/or service hundreds of pistols every year that date  back to 1932. We have VERY FEW complaints (I wish that it was ZERO). We actually have a few pistols every year that we can't repair. Most of these are revolvers that are worn out but, there are a few pistols. We are the best for your High Standard needs !!! I can't understand the "Bragging" comment about the 22 LR ammunition ??? I was only stating the facts. Those people are also our customers and, they expressed their APPRECIATION for the price and availability of the ammunition. We are NOT perfect and neither are our products. But I repeat, WE are the best by miles in High Standard Products and Services !!! In closing, I would like to add that we will adjust up to 3 magazines at NO CHARGE. You can send your pistol and magazines to us. We will adjust your magazines and supply the ammunition at NO CHARGE. You only pay the return USPS Return Postage of $25.00. - Alan Aronstein