When is it time to tell a relative to stop shooting and get rid of his guns?

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If I was involved in a hypothetical situation, and didn't know the appropriate way to handle it.....  The short version is if I have a family member who started to shoot in High School, and is now 75.  He has been diagnosed with MCI (Mild Cognitive Impairment), which as I understand things, is the fist step on the way to "dementia".  He got me involved in shooting a lifetime ago, and until he developed tremors, he shot very well. He has a gun safe in his bedroom, with probably 25 rifles and an equal number of handguns, and a second gun safe full of ammo.

He is finally agreeing to take the medications his doctors prescribed, but as I understand it, this situation is not reversible - it will just continue to get worse over time, but by doing the appropriate things, he can slow this down.  I may have posted about this a year or two ago, but now things are approaching a point where something may need to be done.

His sons, and my other brother say bluntly "no more guns" for him.
To which I respond "what does his doctor say about this?", which greatly annoys them, as if it's the stupidest thing I could say or think.

His memory is now awful, and if he starts to say something, before he reaches the end of the sentence he doesn't remember what the discussion was about.

He had a neighbor across the road from him, who had a huge number of physical problems, and ended them by shooting himself.
This too is on my mind.

Anyway, three questions about which I'd like to understand/accept/suggest/whatever...
a) At what point does one tell a relative "no more guns"?
b) What to do about the 50 or so guns he already has?
c) Am I so wrong in thinking his doctors should decided this, not his family?

I have an anecdatum (single anecdotal data point) which might add something to the discussion.

About 20 years ago my parents were making one their last trips to visit us in the States. I'd been working on some 200yd loads for my 22-250 and wanted to go down the range to test them. Thinking it would give my Mum a break I invited Dad along.

Some background here - Dad was a trained sniper who had hit the beaches in Normandy. He'd also had a stroke that the doctors expected to be fatal and since that point he'd had multiple strokes and heart attacks. To say he was memory limited and unsteady on his feet would be a gross under-statement.

Anyway I figure out what the load characteristics are while the old man is sitting enjoying the California spring sunshine. Having done that, and having some rounds left, I decide to have a go at the 300yd gong. Pah - no chance. This is with a sling but from the bench. I turned around to see Dad smiling at me benignly. So I asked him if he wanted a go. I hand him the rifle, he adjusts the sling and, standing with the rifle to his shoulder, takes 2 deep breaths. Just as the second breath starts all the tremors vanish and he's like a block of stone. Then bang - DONG!. I just looked at him and said "I bet you can't do that again". Chambers another round, 2 breaths, bang - DONG!.

When he handed me the rifle back he had the biggest grin on his face I ever saw. If I did anything in my life that made him happier than he was just at that moment I can't think what it was.

I offer this up as an encouragement to consider keeping carefully supervised shooting in his life for as long as possible. If it's something he really enjoys then the sense of accomplishment should do him the world of good.

This input is worth exactly what you paid for it, I have no medical experience beyond applying band aids and I've never stayed in a Holiday Inn.

So the ninth circuit hates guns more than it loves marijuana. Head scratcher number 1. And a federal judge in Oklahoma rules that the constitution prohibits the feds from disarming a user of wacky weed… can’t wait to see this one go on to the 10th Circuit.

Please, Oh Lord, guide the justices of the 10th Circuit to grant an appeal and oral argument!

straybrit wrote:.......I offer this up as an encouragement to consider keeping carefully supervised shooting in his life for as long as possible. If it's something he really enjoys then the sense of accomplishment should do him the world of good........

Beautiful story, and yes, my hypothetical relative loves guns and was obsessed with shooting well.  When he shot at his local range years ago, everyone looked up to him, including the range staff.

His main limitation now (hypothetical, of course) is tremors.  The only thing he hypothetically struggles with, is remembering how disassemble and re-assemble some of them, but heck, I have the same (non-hypothetical) problem when I want to take apart a gun I haven't worked with in a year or two.  It always comes back quickly, and if I get stuck, there is always YouTube.  He loves his hypothetical Ruger revolver, and even more so, his Model 52.  Those are all reasons why I should help him shoot when I visit (hypothetically of course), rather than go along with other family members ("No Guns!!!).  

'straybrit' - I loved your story, and you really made his day!  I bet that smile lasted for a long time.  Thank you for posting!

The question "When is it time" has come up so many times with aging or sick individuals.

Many of us in one form or another has dealt with this, be it with our parents or some relative or friend.

There will never be a good time to take something away from someone if they have any ability to realize it is happening to them.

We do the best we can for the person and the people around them, even if they don't think we are.

Guns are one of the harder situations to deal with, because they are guns, and so many bad things could go wrong.  We tend to put a much higher risk value on them, than most other situations.

So the person who is dealing with their age, medical condition or what have you, after we take the guns out of the house (and it may be needed) do we take all the forks and knives out of the house?

Do we lock the cellar door, so they can't fall down the stairs and seriously injure or kill themselves, do we lock them in their room.

My point there are so many things that need attention but we kind of turn the other way a little and say "they will be okay."

I feel for the OP and think he and the family will figure out that time.

Maybe while this individual still has most of his faculties, a conversation about his great collection of guns could be brought up, who does he want the guns to go to, could he and or his wife use the money for other things, maybe sell some of them.  Keep his favorites.

If by chance he wants you to have the guns, maybe that is the opening to take them to your house.

I also think since he is still able to shoot, I would take him out to the range under your supervision and let him shoot his guns.  Maybe take him a few times and tell him you will continue to do so.

Never can tell depending on how the questions are asked, he may not put up the big fight you think about taking the guns to your house.

Not the same but when my mom turned 80 her health started to go down hill, she was still driving and drove just fine.  The problem was she could barely walk and getting in and out of the car was a monumental task.

Her car was her independence, like most older folks.  I was really afraid she was going to hurt herself or someone.

One of the hardest days in my life having the conversation with mom telling her I think it is time to stop driving, it hurt her, it hurt me, but at the end of the day it was the right thing for all of us.

When is it the right time - almost always never, you are a standup person trying to do the right thing, that is all any of us can do, when you go to sleep at night and you are squared away with yourself, then it's all good.

Of course you could let the rest of the family tell him no more guns.  Then you step in and tell him you will keep them at your house, and he can come over and go shooting with you. 

Hypothetically of course.

BruceV wrote:The question "When is it time" has come up so many times with aging or sick individuals.
Many of us in one form or another has dealt with this, be it with our parents or some relative or friend.
There will never be a good time to take something away from someone if they have any ability to realize it is happening to them.
We do the best we can for the person and the people around them, even if they don't think we are.
........
Of course you could let the rest of the family tell him no more guns.....

Hypothetically speaking, I will leave this up to his wife.  When I visit them in several weeks, I will ask her whether or not I should go to his shooting range with him.
Other than his wife, the rest of the family has already decided NO GUNS!! and it is pointless to argue with them.

As I see it, MCI (Mild Cognitive Impairment) is not a valid reason to take away a person's guns:  https://www.nia.nih.gov/health/what-mild-cognitive-impairment
MCI may remain stable for years, but may progress to Alzheimer's or another type of dementia.  MCI may also improve over time.

Hypothetically, to me, MCI is not a valid reason to take away a person's guns.
If it gets worse, and progresses to some form of dementia, that is when to consider doing so.
Hypothetically, of course, I will try to stay out of these discussions with family, and only discuss with his wife.

.....and as someone pointed out earlier, I have no right to do anything, only to suggest. 

That last post sums up the situation.  I will let his wife be the guide (and she used to go to the shooting range with him, and enjoyed shooting her own 22 revolver....  years ago).
Hypothetically, of course.

Mike, I think everyone of us who have faced this situation wish you and all involved good luck and prayers. Hypothetically of course! And how great would it be if the hypothetical Rx stabilizes or reverses MCI. Hypothetically.

This whole discussion has prompted me to have a conversation with my wife about what to do if I start declining in a way that concerns her. Probably put it in writing, too, for her protection.

RodJ wrote:......Probably put it in writing, too......

While I do have a will, that's for only after I die.
I appreciate your thought, and I guess I need to find a way to do the same thing.

mikemyers wrote:

RodJ wrote:......Probably put it in writing, too......

While I do have a will, that's for only after I die.
I appreciate your thought, and I guess I need to find a way to do the same thing.

Tragically , last week , a family member ,without warning, shot himself. USMC Viet Nam vet , retired from a career in a field that required a level head and the ability to think clearly under life or death stress. One of the last people in the world you'd expect to commit suicide. A recent stroke had resulted in some personality change , nothing that set off warnings. How on earth are we to know when the time has come for an intervention? In your case , the idea of changing the safe combo might be a good way to prevent tragedy and evaluate a persons' mental abilities. I wish you the best of luck

Richard Benoit wrote:Tragically , last week , a family member ,without warning, shot himself. USMC Viet Nam vet , retired from a career in a field that required a level head and the ability to think clearly under life or death stress. One of the last people in the world you'd expect to commit suicide. A recent stroke had resulted in some personality change , nothing that set off warnings. How on earth are we to know when the time has come for an intervention? .......

Very sorry for you.  If people who shoot themselves this way realized how much it would harm and hurt those who love them, maybe they would think of it as a selfish idea and not do it.  I don't know what to say, just that I'm very sorry for you, and your family.  For the person who ended it, life is over.  For everyone else, the grief will go on for ages.    I could ask more, but that's irrelevant.  For you and your family, the grief will continue for a very long time.  It took me over a year to get over the deaths of my parents (from old age related causes), when I knew the end was coming.  

I see this continually changing world around me of family, and friends, and acquaintances, and I think everything will go on forever, but it doesn't.


To answer your last question, all I can think is that people who may be inclined to do something like this, should on their own seek medical help.  A good clinical psychologist can do wonders at smoothing out a rough life - personally, I think that "people" just need someone to talk to, but there is a huge gap between a friend or neighbor, or a doctor who is trained on how to help.

.......all of which is just mumbo-jumbo, because nothing but the passage of time is likely to take away your pain and hurt.  Sorry for you.