How many Bullseye competition shooters in USA ?

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How many Bullseye competition shooters do you think are in the USA ? Competition meaning big national , regional , State matches and the small local gun range matches that might have 6 local Matches a year. ? Just a rough idea ? 
Thanks. MD

Ask a high-school aged child to get up earlier than normal, join a competition that has no prizes, and that they are unlikely to excel in..... A lot of them would rather play Xbox, or phone surf, or go shoot an IDPA/USPSA match (get to try out some John Wick moves). This is one of the uphill battles that BE will always have.

Are you sure?  If my HS* had shooting sport vs the usual (basketball, football, track) I would have been very interested.  Why?

1. Shooting is fun
2. Unlike other sports shooting doesn't favor tall, big, strong, fast genetic gifts.  Just determination (IMO), and without gifts you can still train and become competitive
3. Boys like guns
4. Despite popular opinion, the US will likely be at war again one day - and shooting skills will once again be necessary (not that they ever were or will one day be superfluous)

*California class of '73

JHHolliday wrote:2. Unlike other sports shooting doesn't favor tall, big, strong, fast genetic gifts.  Just determination (IMO), and without gifts you can still train and become competitive

This is huge.  The moneyball sports all favor unusual body types.  If you don't have it, it doesn't matter how hard you train, how much you want it, or how long you practice.  You can't excel.

Shooting?  Anyone can be a champion.

Mike M. wrote:

JHHolliday wrote:2. Unlike other sports shooting doesn't favor tall, big, strong, fast genetic gifts.  Just determination (IMO), and without gifts you can still train and become competitive

This is huge.  The moneyball sports all favor unusual body types.  If you don't have it, it doesn't matter how hard you train, how much you want it, or how long you practice.  You can't excel.

Shooting?  Anyone can be a champion.

Ummm….up to a point…. There’s a difference between those who are “National Champion” level and even the “run of the mill” Hiigh Master. Exactly what the magic sauce is isn’t really identifiable, I suspect its vision nuances as shooting is vision centered. But what how and why is a mystery.

[quote="Wobbley"][quote="Mike M."]

JHHolliday wrote:2. Unlike other sports shooting doesn't favor tall, big, strong, fast genetic gifts.  Just determination

Shooting?  Anyone can be a champion.

Ummm….up to a point….


This is where natural talent bears fruit. We all know someone who is gifted with exceptional talent. Among the gifted are a few who can achieve "genuis" level achievements. Look at other difficult skills. There will be a few people that truly shine. Some of them worked really, really, hard to achieve. Others needed some coaching, direction, and (honestly) prodding to realize greatness.

How many "Mozarts" go unrecognized for lack of the opportunity to play a piano?

Do all Olympians fall into the gifted category? I think so. Is Phelps a happy coincidence of opportunity and Leading? Absolutely! What if fish boy was born to a family that had no access to a swimming pool?

Take every opportunity to bring anyone to the range. You may become a sponsor of the perfect Marksman!

ding-a-ling wrote:

Wobbley wrote:

Mike M. wrote:

JHHolliday wrote:2. Unlike other sports shooting doesn't favor tall, big, strong, fast genetic gifts.  Just determination

Shooting?  Anyone can be a champion.

Ummm….up to a point….


This is where natural talent bears fruit. We all know someone who is gifted with exceptional talent. Among the gifted are a few who can achieve "genuis" level achievements. Look at other difficult skills. There will be a few people that truly shine. Some of them worked really, really, hard to achieve. Others needed some coaching, direction, and (honestly) prodding to realize greatness.

How many "Mozarts" go unrecognized for lack of the opportunity to play a piano?

Do all Olympians fall into the gifted  category? I think so. Is Phelps a happy coincidence of opportunity and Leading? Absolutely! What if fish boy was born to a family that had no access to a swimming pool?

Take every opportunity to bring anyone to the range. You may become a sponsor of the perfect Marksman!

Shooting, or at least the discipline we mainly talk about here, is unique in that the average person is physically as well equipped as any national champion. The biggest hurdle is going to be mental. I think in this respect shooting has more in common with a game like chess than it does with more physical sports. I do believe natural ability comes into play but the differences are not nearly as obvious as physical attributes are in more physical sports. For example, there are differences in people's natural ability to focus on one thing for a long period of time. Some people are naturally more receptive or understanding of coaching and will progress faster than those that aren't. Some people are naturally less likely to become mentally fatigued. Some people are naturally more able to organize and adhere to the many factors/fundemantals that go into every single shot, shot after shot after shot.

Still something about national champions and epic beards though..

ding-a-ling wrote: Perhaps a BE package: buy this pistol and get a basic Bullseye range kit (t-shirt, pasters, gauges, box of kleenex, whatever). 

LOL.
There's no crying in hardball.
CMP did a promotion a few years ago near covid times. It included a t-shirt and pin and other goodies, as well as support for ranges offering target backers etc.  Summer 2021? Anyway it seemed to get some ranges to try something new. I had fun at the event, especially understanding that most of the people there were using equipment that wasn't exactly made for target but they tried anyway. Worked for exposure.  Sometimes you just need a little something they can remember fondly later, when they are ready for it.

My observation on the matter are things change; equipment changes, people change and facilities change.

I first started shooting competitively (PPC) in 1978. That year there were around 900 competitors in Jackson, MS. I think then we only shot a revolver 1500, a Distinguished 600, 2 and 4 person Team 600 matches and a Shotgun Match. Each was a stand alone match and Champion was only determined by the revolver 1500. Team Matches were the absolute highlight for many. Team matches are multipliers for growth. If one, you need to drag along1 to 3 more shooters to shoot a Team. Now the NRA National Police Championships bring 200 or less. Agencies, City, County and Town Managers liked the photo ops of their then well dressed, spiffy officers wielding a gun similar to their duty gun and a trophy. Why the decline?

First, the NRA's Wayne LaPierre in the early or mid 1980's made a comment about LE as being similar to Jack Booted Thugs. This caused many agencies to no longer support the NRA police shooting programs. About that same time semi-autos picked up popularity. Those guns were not and still aren't comparatively worthy as a 50 yd pistol, when one was used to a revolver, which out of the box was pretty accurate. Of course it didn't take long before there was a Semi-Auto 1500 which meant another gun and more expensive, and another caliber of ammo to get past the bean counters. Then a requirement that you had to shoot a revo 1500 and a semi-auto 1500 for the Championship. Then a slew of other guns. All this made for an equipment race with not just one gun but maybe 6 or 7 different guns.

John Bianchi and Ray Chapman's concept of the Bianchi Cup in 1979 was a refreshing concept. Not precision pistol, not PPC and not then early version of action shooting, but an interesting blend of all. Most shot either out of the box revolvers or what was then a slightly enhanced 1911 in .45 acp. There were no Categories, no classifications. NRA Action Pistol with 4 primary events (about 15 on the books) requires 4 specific range venues to conduct a match. Many venues can only shoot 2 competitors at a time per venue or stage, some can shoot 3 or 4 at a time. Except the Mover. Most facilities only have one mover, with very few having 2 movers. This limits the MD to cut off entries. With few exceptions, with a single mover the event is probably limited to 50-60 entries per day. The Bianchi Cup was promoted as, whether it is or not is arguable, to be the best all around test of a pistolero's abilities. It's popularity has run in the 130-250 competitors each year and now I think it has settled around that 140 number. Jim Henderson at CMP has really tried to get it going again. I think they will succeed. The event since 1979 has always been the Tuesday or Wednesday through Saturday of the last week in May. This makes it nearly impossible to attract junior age shooters due to classes.

IDPA, USPSA and other similar sports are much easier to attract people. They too now have become equipment races, but not as much. Buy a Glock, SIG, S&W or Ruger and go play. A holster, 2-4 mag pouches and mags and a range bag with eye and ear protection and it off to a match. You probably can shoot the entire match in half a day in most cases, shoot a box, maybe 2 of off the shelf ammo and have a ton of fun in the meantime. The younger shooters of today, who grew up on fast food, video shoot'em up games and the like are more drawn to this, than what is required to excel in precision pistol.

More on precision pistol. The shooting box alone has become a problem. How many even make them any longer. How much will it cost you? Spotting scope? Worthy guns? You need at least 2. Time? It takes all day to shoot a 2700. Case in point. I have accumulated my 30 points for EIC Service Pistol Distinguished. I have never fired in an EIC match where there were enough non-distinguished shooters to grant a "big leg". In the past several years I shot PP at 3 different venues. Most had about 15-24 competitors total for the aggregate and usually a third that many for EIC matches. However, one venue started doing the CMP Games As Issued and Service Pistol Matches and they were quite popular. Hmm. a nearly out of the box gun concept again and it was very popular.

I would like to see both NRA and CMP permit one to shoot one gun in a two or three gun aggregate. we know that we can shoot a .45 in CF, but we can't shoot a CF or .45 in .22. Few if any would argue that there is a competitive advantage in shooting a .45 in CF, or a CF in .22. Why not let someone shoot one gun, a .45 for CF as well as for .22? This would bring the equipment race down to one gun, with no competitive advantage, yet a huge reduction in equipment needed to test the waters of PP.

Ammo, loading equipment and components are another topic of limiting factors to any of the precision shooting type games. We need to adapt by adopting some change, or we will die on the vine as costs of equipment and supplies, range requirements and even staffing are all, negatively impacting us.

~ Martin