Sight moves while dry firing

Springfield 1911 Match pistol.  Never shot it well.  I made some changes.  

Trigger pull is now 3# 12 oz.  The overtravel is minimum required for function.  

I shortened the trigger bow the shortest possible for proper function.  See other thread about my short fingers.  I am still not 90* between my finger pad and the trigger bow, but I am now pretty close. 

When I dry fire the front sight moves about 1/4 to 1/2 a blade width to the right as the hammer falls.  

How do I change my grip and trigger manipulation to keep it steady? 

Thanks
Scot

By the way ....
Adjust the overtravel so that when you hold the hammer as it releases from the sear and it lowers, you cannot feel it rubbing the half-cock hook on the hammer as it lowers past the sear.

I recall seeing an image that Jerry Keefer had posted where the grip panels were just thin flat aluminum to accommodate a small hand.

The rule of thumb I heard is "move your trigger finger in the direction the gun is jumping", so if you are seeing a jump to the right, move your finger a little bit to the right on the trigger (less finger in the trigger if you are right handed). That said, it didn't work for me. Give it a try, but don't worry if it doesn't work or if you have to move your finger in a different direction. 

Fundamentally there are 2 things that make the sights jump as the trigger falls:
1. You are putting sideways pressure on the gun through the trigger, which disappears for a moment when the sear releases
2. You are putting sideways pressure on the trigger and when the trigger breaks, it builds momentum then hits the stop and jerks the gun.

There are plenty of other things that can cause the gun to move, but that fast jump when dry firing is almost always trigger related. However, it may be that you don't even know you are doing it and you are subconsciously counteracting pressure from the thumb, fingers, changes in grip pressure etc.

You have to experiment. Maybe others have some ideas of things to try, but if re-positioning the trigger finger doesn't affect it, try more, less or no side pressure from your thumb, from your finger tips, more or less pressure from your pinkie finger, different angles of the wrist etc.

Dry fire
Dry fire
Dry fire
Get to the range and practice with a purpose
Dry fire
Dry fire
Dry fire
Consider an air pistol. Pellets are comparatively cheap and the help it gives on your slow fire is immense.

Agree with SteveT and Nuke... Experiment and dry fire. Try different finger positions on the trigger, and imagine pulling your finger to different, repeatable landmarks.

On my 1911, the center of the pad of my finger is on the left edge of the trigger, and I put uniform pressure across the trigger face as I pull towards the web of my thumb.
On my ruger, the pad of my finger is centered on the over-travel screw and I pull to my top wristbone.

As a fellow member of the small hands club, experiment with riding the thumb safety. I find that adding thumb pressure stabilizes lateral movement, but your mileage may vary.

 I just started last year, and I found that taking notes helped a lot. When you find a hand position that works, write it down. If you make changes, write that down too. If you have a fantastic practice session, write down what you did right, so you can do it again.

A possible exercise:

With gun empty, hammer forward and gun pointed in a safe direction, set up your grip and increase and decrease trigger pressure against the stop, watching to see what the gun does.  Start somewhat slowly at first, while looking from the top.  Adjust grip, etc. for minimum perceived movement as you increase the speed of the trigger operation.  Work toward the ability to operate the trigger with no movement.  Move to using the sights to determine the proper grip, etc. with the same increasing and decreasing pressures.  Finally, move to full operation dry fires.

Things you can do

Get the grip girth/volume and length of pull as best you can for the size of your hand. 

Pump the trigger in dry fire mode.  That's pressure on pressure off.  Ask Mr Miyagi.
Dryfire and hold the trigger back.  Release trigger.
Carefully watch the sights as you do each of the above.

You need to sense-feel-see a straight back press.  Only you can do that by training your mental game

I have the same problem.  When dry-firing the dot jumps a little when the hammer falls, more so with 1911s than my 208.  If I concentrate I can keep the 208 dot within my wobble, but it is harder with 1911's heavier trigger.

What do you use for rimfire? Are you having the same problem?
I have a mantis x10. It’s pricy, but gives me feedback for every shot. It gives feedback of what you are doing wrong. Maybe your grip is too far forward and you are pulling to the right? Is it possible to put the pistol in a vice or support with the left hand to separate the grip and trigger pull variables?

What do you use for rimfire? Are you having the same problem?
I have a mantis x10. It’s pricy, but gives me feedback for every shot. It gives feedback of what you are doing wrong. Maybe your grip is too far forward and you are pulling to the right? Is it possible to put the pistol in a vice or support with the left hand to separate the grip and trigger pull variables?

Manitis screenshot
Blue is wobble
Yellow trigger pull
Red is rexoilu

Tallthinliar wrote:Manitis screenshot
Blue is wobble
Yellow trigger  pull
Red is rexoilu

What is "rexoilu"?

Dennis, aka Dulcmrman

Sorry. Red is gun recoil

Scota4570 wrote:Springfield 1911 Match pistol.  Never shot it well.  I made some changes.  

Trigger pull is now 3# 12 oz.  The overtravel is minimum required for function.  

I shortened the trigger bow the shortest possible for proper function.  See other thread about my short fingers.  I am still not 90* between my finger pad and the trigger bow, but I am now pretty close. 

When I dry fire the front sight moves about 1/4 to 1/2 a blade width to the right as the hammer falls.  

How do I change my grip and trigger manipulation to keep it steady? 

Thanks
Scot

You mention shortening the trigger bow, but have you tried a short trigger pad?

I have small hands and a short trigger pad has drastically changed how I shoot

I use Wilson Combat short trigger pad, easy to fit and is one of the shorter trigger pads.  I think nighthawk custom has a slightly shorter trigger pad though 

That and having a safety grip fit to my hand

I face the same issues as I have quite small hands for a man (no jokes!). Definitely try a short trigger. I have also found that removing material from the right grip panel where my trigger finger extends (right ahead of the grip screw) ensures that I'm not making contact at that spot as I work the trigger --which is very bad mojo...

Lots of different thickness grip panels available to see if they help. As another mentioned, a mantis can be very useful in both dry and live fire. Very helpful with dryfire since you don’t get target feedback.

22s?  I have a Woodsman match Target with the slab sided barrel.  I shoot it really well despite the trigger reach being long.  I also have a S/W M17 6".

The Mantis system looks great.  Unfortunately none of my 1911s have a rail.  

I'll try the pressing the trigger against the stop idea. 

I modified the trigger on my main 1911 to retain the curve but reduce the reach to the minimum and still permit proper function.  Call it a super short trigger.  

Thanks

I attach my mantis to bottom of magazine.  Double sticky tape on small rail. Mantis sells them or 3D print your own

Jim

Scota,

The Mantis system has some small polymer rail sections that use a strong adhesive tape so you can use the system without the gun itself having a rail. It's small enough that you can tape (I just used epoxy) it to the base of 1911 mag for both dry and live fire.

Huskerhunter wrote:Scota,

The Mantis system has some small polymer rail sections that use a strong adhesive tape so you can use the system without the gun itself having a rail. It's small enough that you can tape (I just used epoxy) it to the base of 1911 mag for both dry and live fire.

Mantis also offers replacement magazine floorplates with rails on them. 

Don

I made some discoveries.  An excellent shooter showed me how to make my grip better.  Putting the mainspring arch in the fold of my palm and gripping more firmly helped.  Yesterday I shot some respectable practice targets, ~ 94 at 25 yards.   

When I got home I looked at my pistol and decided to change a couple of things. 

 The mainspring supplied in my trigger kit was very low powered.  To make a 4# trigger pull I needed to bend the trigger return spring.  That made a rather mushy feeling trigger pull.  I tried a full strength mainspring.  The pull felt more crisp.  The hammer fall was more  "snappy".  The pull went  up to about 5#.  I put the trigger return leaf spring back to a normal shape.  I got a 4# pull.  The crisp 4# fells about like a mushy 3# pull as far as effort to make the hammer fall.  I thought I was going to have to put more bend on the trigger return spring base on the feel.  The best part is that the hammer fall is very fast and the sights do not seem to jump around at the hammer fall.  Neat.  

I tried an arched mainspring housing.  I like that better with my modified way of gripping the pistol.  I also installed some very minimum thickness ebony grip panels that I made a long time ago.  They feel good and look flashy against the stainless pistol.  

Thanks for the help everyone,
Scot

Happy you are making progress.  Just one thing, though.  The spring you reference in your latest post is known as the sear spring.  The "mainspring" is the spring that resides in the arched or flat mainspring housing you talk about changing.  Both the sear spring (usually three fingers) and the mainspring have an impact on your trigger weight and feel.

FWIW,

Nomenclature matters, you are right.  

Funny they call the three leaf springs the "sear spring".  Only one leaf acts on the sear.  The others act on the disconnector/trigger bow and the grip safety.  Anyway, when I reshaped it back to original for the sear and disconnector leaves all was good.