Service Revolver

It seems the most talked about revolvers for the SR match is some variant of the S&W K-38 aka Model 14.
Any specific places or people to check out to find one?
Any things to look for?

Also, what modern production revolver would be a good choice? It seems most of the magazine tests have fairly dismal groups at 50 yards.

Ruger GP-100? S&W 686?
Yes, I have seen the pricey foreign ones too!

Thanks for any suggestions!

Boards like this are a good place to ask. You’ll be able to ask questions and request pictures a little easier than on one of the auction sights.  Many of us have guns we don’t use all that much and it might be time to let it go.  I have 14-3 that I will be selling but haven’t gotten around to listing it just yet.  A wanted ad usually pushes me over the edge .
Let me know if want to look at mine or place an ad in the For Sale / Wanted section and see what’s out there. 

Good luck.
John

Take a look at the 586. They often get skipped over but perfect for SR.

The guns you see at matches are there for a reason—popularity indicates suitability.  You will see a lot of Smiths (14s, 586/686s, 27s, 28s) because they have decent factory sights, the triggers clean up well with very little work, and the actions like to stay in time (and are not hard to keep in time).

I wouldn’t put much stock into magazine reviews.  Most revolvers need a little testing for 50 yards—chamber charge holes are not bored identically, so one or two specific chambers usually shoot best.  That takes time and ammo to determine.

The preferences in a revolver mostly come down to grip and trigger preference.   How do you shoot sustained fire—SA or DA?  Big or small hands?  Long or short fingers?

I’ve never felt a GP100 trigger that inspired confidence, even with shims and lightened springs.  Very stagy and overtravel-y.  

If you shoot DA at all, a lightly tuned Smith in the right frame size for your hands is a perfect tool.  The sights are better than anything Colt ever installed (besides factory Elliasons, if you can find them). The added bonus is the action is not trying to kill itself in DA like an unmodified Colt E/I frame.

I shoot SAO.  I have tried full-target Smiths, but always found the guns to be shifty with fast thumbcocking.  Colts, for my hands, have a better grip angle relative to their hammers.  The triggers (personal opinion) are inferior to the Smiths due to internal geometry, but my short line scores are more consistent because of a better connection to the revolver.

that makes so much sense to me....i purchased what i could afford that looked very nice, and it is pretty nice but it doesn't instill confidence or at least as much confidence as i'd hoped had i chosen a platform that fit my hand like a glove.

I too seek a M14.  I am in California.  You can add over $100 to the price of any gun due to fees.  I am hesitant to by a revolver sight unseen because of those fees.  I have eyes on a minty M14 but the owner is not selling yet.  

Do not buy a Colt.  I have found only one person who seems competent to work on them.  I got an Officers' Model with heavy barrel.  It is badly out of time.  It can not be returned.  The previouls owner probably did not know.  Probably....  IT also had cold blue touch ups.  It was sold at a collector price.   The one gunsmith that sounds competent currently  has back trouble.  There are shipping headaches.   Also The adjustable front sight is not legal for some competitions.  Despite the lore IMHO it is an antiquated and fragile design and not suitable for a lot of use.

Don't overlook s&w 15's. I think they are a little easier to find a deal on than 14s,

Interesting information regarding the old Colt revolvers...some of them are very attractive.

My hands beckon for a larger frame...so perhaps the 20 series SW revolvers?


For those of you who might be interested. We have many additional costs that other states likely do not have, making our purchases rather dear. 
I recently checked with our FFL as i was looking at an old C&R revolver on GunBroker.
The C&R revolver i found started out at something like 500 dollars (ultimately it went for a lot more but let's just stick with $500 for this example).
We of course you must add apx. 50 dollars for shipping
then we have some $37 for DROS
Must not forget then transfer fee of $100
then of course there's the lovely 11% tax on top of the usual 8 percent sales tax

That 500 dollar bargain C&R revolver now ends up costing a whopping $782 dollars. 
Most of the time you also have to add $10 for a new cable trigger lock (even if you have plenty already). 
So now it's $792 dollars for a $500 revolver.....well above what i can reasonably afford at this time.

Scota4570 wrote:I too seek a M14.  I am in California.  You can add over $100 to the price of any gun due to fees.  I am hesitant to by a revolver sight unseen because of those fees.  I have eyes on a minty M14 but the owner is not selling yet.  

Do not buy a Colt.  I have found only one person who seems competent to work on them.  I got an Officers' Model with heavy barrel.  It is badly out of time.  It can not be returned.  The previous owner probably did not know.  Probably....  IT also had cold blue touch ups.  It was sold at a collector price.   The one gunsmith that sounds competent currently  has back trouble.  There are shipping headaches.   Also The adjustable front sight is not legal for some competitions.  Despite the lore IMHO it is an antiquated and fragile design and not suitable for a lot of use.

Sorry to hear you had a bad buying experience with a Colt, but in case you hadn't tried working on it, E/I frame Colts (Officer's Model Target, Officer's Model Match, Pythons) are dead simple inside.  The hand assembly does all the timing work and is also the wear part that causes lazy cylinder rotation eventually.  In almost all the Colts I've shot, the hand was the culprit for timing issues.  Chamber and bore alignment is up to the cylinder bolt, and those issues are rarer than hand wear, but I've also seen them.  Replacement factory and repro parts are available.  Time, elbow grease, and files/stones will get your gun locking like brand new.  

Mechanically, the Colts have less going on inside than the Smiths.  Not as easy to tune as a result, but way easier to work on.  They're also pretty robust if you shoot them the way revolvers were shot 100 years ago (DA is only there for emergencies).  The "bank vault lockup" is the culprit: the hand is pushed against the cylinder star by the trigger, which is trying to rotate against the cylinder as the cylinder bolt stops rotation.  Shoot double action, and you're pushing movable metal (the hand) against unmoving metal (the star) with 8-10 lbs of finger pressure as the gun is going off.  Shoot single action, and you're only using 2-3 lbs of pressure to get the same lockup.

Sounds like you have an Officer's Model Target with the adjustable front sight.  I have a couple.  I think the later Match (fixed Patridge front with a fully adjustable rear) is a superior setup for this game, but the OMT should be just fine for CMP Service Revolver and NRA Centerfire matches.  The NRA Distinguished Revolver rules are the only ones that forbid adjustable front sights.

This season I shot a Smith 14 for Service Revolver. 

Previously for revolver matches I have shot a Smith 586, Smith 27, Ruger GP100. All would perform if you were willing to put in the work to learn how to shoot a revolver. Specifically for CMP Service Revolver a 25-2 in 45 acp would be a fun option, as would a Model 19. 

Side note for my friends in California, in some sage words of advice that my grandfather gave my Dad and uncle when they were living in California and complaining about the cons of living there, "If you don't like it, move". Yep a very tough love statement, but it gets old listening to the same gripes and complaints over and over.

A new Python might be an option as well.  A few people have said good things about the work of https://www.heffronprecision.com/ on the Colt forum. The Stainless Steel ones are CA compliant.  Good luck with your search.

Interesting website for Heffron Precision, they’re booked through early 2027

Will refer back in the future…one never knows, might be worth a call

Thank you

brand-new wrote:Interesting website for Heffron Precision, they’re booked through early 2027

Will refer back in the future…one never knows, might be worth a call

Thank you

Frank Glenn also works on the new pythons, and has a much shorter turn-around. He numbered my cylinders and got the single action down to 2.5 pounds this spring, turn around time was only 2 weeks and most of that was in shipping. Highly recommend talking to him.

Regarding the new Pythons, here is my personal experience:

Out of the box my 6” Python had a single action trigger pull of 6+ lbs.  The hammer would also move to the rear a bit when the trigger was pulled.  This was due to the hammer hook angle being less than 90 degrees.  No doubt this feature helped the gun meet drop test requirements but it hurts precision shooting.  Shaping/stoning/polishing that angle to 90 degrees reduced the trigger pull to about 4 lbs. and eliminated the rearward movement of the hammer.  I then tweaked the ‘U’ shaped spring a bit and got the pull down to just over 2-1/2 lbs.  I closed the opening at the top of the ‘U’ by .080” in the free state.  The trigger now breaks cleanly, at the proper weight, and I’m completely happy with it.  The hammer and spring are the ONLY two internal parts I modified.

The stock rear sight is terrible but fortunately Kensight offers an Elliason sight that is true to those that were offered on some of the earlier Pythons.  The front sight is fine but is about .050” too short when using .38 target loads that run about 750 fps +/-.  It probably works fine with hot .357s but I haven’t tried it.

I’m still searching for a set of grip panels that work well for my hand, shooting single action.

Next on my agenda is to do some Ransom Rest testing to identify the best chamber for slow fire and the worst chamber, if any, for sustained.

Lastly, if I were to do it again, I might consider the 5” model for less bullet time in the barrel.  That could also help the front sight height issue with target loads.  The give up would of course be losing 1” of sight radius but for reference, the sight radius on the 6” model is 7-1/2”.  The full under lug offers plenty of weight at the muzzle end on my gun so I suspect the 5” model wouldn’t lose too much in that department.

Dave

great advice and information, i did have some doubts regarding the new generation Colt revolvers, likely the result of some internet misinformation. all the information and counsel is very much appreciated.

Update on the Colt Officers model.  

I bought a new bolt and hand from Jack First.  The hand was wrong but the bolt was OK. 

It took a long time to do it right.  It was clear that I was not the first person who worked on my near mint "collectors' grade" revolver.  Well, it is not mint anymore.   

I took the time to fit the bolt perfectly. I had to arch the rebound lever to make the bolt start dropping immediately.   The old bolt fitted sloppy.  I stretched the old hand to make it work.  Now it locks up perfectly and the chambers line up with the barrel correctly.  There is no significant over travel in the trigger.  It is slightly stiff to swing out cylinder due to having the bolt fit the notches with no slop.  I think that will loosen with use. 

It took me about 10 hours of careful work over three days.  The thing that I did not like is that each part has  multiple functions and if you modify one aspect it impacts other aspects.  Changes of a couple thousands in critical area make a huge difference.  That is way I was resistant to fixing it myself.  That is also why it took so long. 

Off to the range to see!

Harrison Design makes taller front sights for the Colt Python. I installed his front sight and rear sight blade. It gives a great sight picture and provides some room for elevation adjustment. 
https://www.harrisoncustom.com/

Rush

Rush223 wrote:Harrison Design makes taller front sights for the Colt Python. I installed his front sight and rear sight blade. It gives a great sight picture and provides some room for elevation adjustment. 
https://www.harrisoncustom.com/

Rush

I installed their taller red night sight on my 2 1/2 2020 Python cause it was shooting a little high for my liking and they are very nice. BTW, so is that Python

I shot the old Colt today.  My work paid off.  IT now shoots much more accurately.  There is no leading.  My best rested 25 yard group was about 1.2" @ 25 yards.  There is usually one flier out of the main cluster.  I'll have to mark the chambers and keep track.  One chamber mouth is a bit smaller than the others. 

I'll have to make some carefully prepared ammo with sorted bullets and cases and see if I can do better.  I shot 2.6 gr Bullseye and 3.5 gr 231 with the Lee full wad cutter.  I like Bullseye better.  Any pet wad cutter loads out there? 

I was surprised that if I rest the muzzle and butt the groups open up and are much higher.  Resting my wrists and letting it recoil normally made smaller/lower  groups.

My pet 38 revolver load is the old 2.7 Bullesye with a H&G #50. I've found it to work best in both my model 14 and OMM. I like the Colt better as it is bigger and heavier and fits my hand better.

3.5 we 231 is awfully stout!
Maybe 3.1 is better

PMC Bronze 132 gr.