IZH-46M replacement?

I have used mine a lot over the past 20 years.  It never shot as well as it should based on reputation.  IT leads up.  The crown was botched at the factory.  I shoots a lot of fliers.  Bench rest accuracy is more like 3/4"" at 10 meters if you count fliers.  I have tried many types of pellets.  IT is not worth my effort anymore.  Practice sessions lead to frustration rather than getting better.  

What is a quality air pistol that I can get today?  Single stroke is preferable.  I do not like plastic parts.  I think it should group ~1/4" @ 10 meters to give meaningful practice.  

Thanks,
Scot

Seek out a used Steyr LP10, Morini 162, or Pardini K12 air pistol. Most people that I know that started on and izh46 wound up with one of the above. Quality SSP 10m guns are not as easy to find.

Hammerli/walther AP20 pro is decent, Airarms alf proj is kinda meh. Air Venturi Comp10 match is intriguing, looks like an lp10 knock off have not seen one in person though. 

Pellets lots do make a difference.

Option 1 would be to see if an air gun specialist can re-crown your gun.  Maybe that is all it would take for yours to be acceptable.

Option 2 could be to seek out a different IZH-46 if you like the style.  I have two friends that both have them and one (or maybe both) had been talking about selling them.  Not because they are bad but because neither one uses it very much. 

These would be the least costly options.  For upgrading to a new gun, your best option would be as chiz recommended and jumping up to a compressed air gun.  They will be more expensive but you are getting world class pistols.

Good luck.
John

Sounds like you got a lemon. They are typically MUCH better than that...

Getting a used high end PCP is a good way to go, but then you need a scuba tank or a pump.  Quality SSP's with good support (parts, repairs) are very scarce these days.  The AP20 is a good pistol, but it you don't like plastic, you'll want a better grip.

If you are an Olympic level pistol competitor, pellet lots might matter.  For most of us, RWS Basic's are fine.  One of the college students I helped coach out shot a member of the US Olympic team with RWS Basics and a 25-30 year old Hammerli 480K.  

To quote a sig line on the TargetTalk Olympic Pistol forum: It's not the arrow, it's the indian..

All the best single stroke pneumatic match air pistols will only be found on the used market. You might want to look at these:
- FWB 65
- FAS 604 
- Feinwerkbau 103
- Pardini Fiocchi P10

gwhite wrote:If you are an Olympic level pistol competitor, pellet lots might matter.  For most of us, RWS Basic's are fine.  One of the college students I helped coach out shot a member of the US Olympic team with RWS Basics and a 25-30 year old Hammerli 480K.  

To quote a sig line on the TargetTalk Olympic Pistol forum: It's not the arrow, it's the indian..

In my personal experience, pellet lots do matter. I don't shoot much air at the moment, but I typically shot high 550s to mid 560s on average. More recent forays into air I was struggling to break 540s, by chance grabbed a different tin for a session, shot high 550s, next session high 550s again. I benched the gun with the two different lots pellets, the amount of difference was surprising, the initial lot of pellets sucked. Reached out to a well regarded individual explained the situation, and he highly suggested to lot test if competing, stating that he had seen differences in group sizes of up to 10mm (roughly the size of the 10 ring) in the worst lots. I would not obsess over lot testing pellets, but I now confirm a lot of pellets is up to the task before shooting them.

Also for what it is worth, I have, on somedays, "out shoot" current/former members of the Olympic team, people using that as an evidence in proving of a point is misleading. Everyone has good days and not so good days. As an exaggerated example of this I will use the Philip Hemphill Revolver match at Perry this year, my score was higher than Jim Henderson's, I would like to point out that I am not anywhere close to his level of proficiency. 

The its not the arrow its the Indian saying is kind of of lacking, is the Indian going to hunt with a dull arrow? Nope.

If you want to see a whole bunch of pellet testing results, do a search on TargetTalk.  Yes, there are crappy pellets out there, but lot testing decent pellets is a waste of time unless you are regularly shooting at least 570 or better.  We had a student who had his Steyr air pistol tested by the JSB pellet people at the Junior Olympics.  When he returned, he bench tested the RWS Basics we use and the groups were pretty much indistinguishable (at about 1/3rd the cost).   The best collegiate shooters max out around 570, and most of them often shoot 10 or 20 points lower than that.  The points they lose are from 8's & 7's, which have nothing to do with the pellets.

The test targets you get with most high end air pistols are not fired with carefully selected pellets.  They use good pellets, and if the pistol passes their quality criteria when they test fire it, they ship it.  If it doesn't, they may try one or two other size/weight pellets.  Usually, if the pistol won't shoot one well, it won't shoot well with the others, and they send it back to get fixed.

There are YouTube videos showing how accurate intentionally damaged pellets are.  You really have to try hard to get pellets as bad as you describe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22q5mjHsGTQ

chiz1180 wrote:Pellets lots do make a difference.

I disagree completely (which is one of the many beauties of airgun pistol).

Unless you are in the Olympics (or even if you are) it is extremely unlikely your hold / trigger will approach the groups that bench-clamped basic pellets do.

Like these:  https://postimg.cc/RqGzpJNT

Or, if not convinced:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22q5mjHsGTQ

Consider a Steyr LP50 5-shot air pistol.  I use this air pistol my basement range to sharpen my skills for the NRA 50-feet indoor pistol matches.  This pistol can shoot the 5 shot in rapid fire event ten seconds.

Rod, has a FWB-65 for sale at a good price right now. They are world class when the 1 pumpers ruled. They still can shoot as good as anything made today, if you don't mind pumping every shot.
 Call Pilkington and let him know your situation, he could give you some advice on what to do. 
 Personally I would clamp the pistol in a vice and fire 5-10 shots at a target. You should have one hole with cloverleafs. If not then check the speed with a chronograph that should be above 450fps, could need new seals also. You never know until you check things out. BTW, I do like their triggers and adjustments.
 Stan

jshank wrote:Consider a Steyr LP50 5-shot air pistol.  I use this air pistol my basement range to sharpen my skills for the NRA 50-feet indoor pistol matches.  This pistol can shoot the 5 shot in rapid fire event ten seconds.

I use an LP50 for this as well, but the trigger isn't adjustable enough to get it to mimic the trigger on my .22's.  It's still better than nothing when driving back  & forth to the range is too much of a time sink.

JHHolliday wrote:

chiz1180 wrote:Pellets lots do make a difference.

I disagree completely (which is one of the many beauties of airgun pistol).

Unless you are in the Olympics (or even if you are) it is extremely unlikely your hold / trigger will approach the groups that bench-clamped basic pellets do.

Like these:  https://postimg.cc/RqGzpJNT

Or, if not convinced:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22q5mjHsGTQ

I was given the advice to test the lot of pellets by someone who quite frankly is someone who should be listened to when he gives advice. It literally take 30min tops to bench 10 shots to make sure the pellets and the gun agree. Most lots of pellets are probably acceptable, however in air pistol specifically, especially if you are shooting a final, decimal scoring matters, it is in your best interest to have the most optimized equipment possible. 

I have not trained air since mid 2022, typically I will just pick up the gun and shoot a practice match without bothering to shoot sighters, the last 60 shot "match" I shot was a 564-16x with a 6 that was a called as a really bad shot (post confirming the H&N Finale pellets did not agree with my gun), The majority of my shots were 10s and inner 9s.  I have cleaned air targets before, shooting mid to high 90s is "normal". I have won or made finals in most of the air matches that I have shot. I would argue I have a pretty good understanding of the air game and where advantages can be found.

tldr: Trust but verify, I would rather have confirmation that the gun/pellet combination is good rather than questioning why a shot that I called as a 10 was in the 9 ring.

I should clarify.  The reason I shoot the  air pistol to improve skills for CMP competition.  I doubt I could ever come close to cleaning a 10M target.  

I am using 50 and 25 yard targets copied and  scaled down to the correct size at 10 meters.  IF I watch a pellet curve away from the front sight blade, that is a problem.  Instead of the 9 or 10 I end up with a 7 or even a 6.  No bueno.  It make me frustrated and doubt my process.  

I have tried a bunch of pellets over the years.  I do not need absolute pin point accuracy.  I should hold the reduced 10-ring though.  That is 3/4".  I have had some groups much better than that.  I have shot 3/8"-ish groups with it, which is good enough.  But the unpredictable fliers are an issue as is the leading that degrades accuracy.  

The muzzle on mine appears  pinched or burred.  The last fraction of an inch hangs up a cleaning patch.  It is not gradual like a choke.  I suppose I could make a piloted crowning reamer.  Nothing to loose for sure.  I have worked it with scochbrite hoping to remove  hang up with out success.  I do not see a practical way to remove the barrel and properly crown it in my lathe.  

Mine looks like it was deeply "crowned" with a countersink.  

Lots of good input from every one, thank you.

If you can't afford a compressed air pistol there are not a lot of choices.  I have a FAS 6004 and it has a nice trigger and the grips are great but the velocity is so slow that even the slightest lack of follow threw will mess you up.  I recently got an FWB-90 that my father no longer used and it is light years better.  The FWB-65 and 80's are nice as well.  I think servicing the older FWB's might be problematic.  Good luck with your search