Cleaning Brass With SS Pins

Well I did not mean to test the damage cleaning with stainless steel pins might have to the thin lips on 45ACP brass...but I did. :-)
Started at a little after 10:00AM today and forgot about it.  Ran for over 5 hours!  Case lips showed no evidence of wear or damage.  On the plus side my brass came out brighter than new brass:-)

Chip

Get a cheap light timer and remove the "on" tab and set the dial to your desired run time. I built myself a wet tumbler a while back and I am still undecided if it is worth the trouble of filling and emptying it and separating the brass from the pins and then drying the brass.

I have a Thumblers Tumbler and run 500 45acp brass in it for 5 hours and they come out like new and with clean primer pockets. For those that don't know, you do not have to fill with water to the top edge. I only fill 1/2 way with water and it does the same job as it does when filled to the top, with the appropriate cleaning agents of course. Doing this cuts down on the weight the motor has to turn and can only help with the longevity of the motor and drive belt.

I have been using SS pins for 3 years and have never experienced any deformation of brass whether 45, 9mm, 38 Special or a variety of rifle brass. Best invention since smokeless powder !!!


Virgil

dan allen wrote:I am still undecided if it is worth the trouble of filling and emptying it and separating the brass from the pins and then drying the brass.

Hi Dan and others,
I am a convert to de-priming my brass and tumbling with soap and pins. I sped up the drying and pin seperating process by finding a wire basket that fits into a new 1 gallon paint can. I filled the can 3/4 full of isopropyl alcohol and just lower the basket of brass and pins into it while swishing it around. The water is disolved into the alcohol and the pins fall to the bottom. I then "dry" the brass in a Dillon vibratory case cleaner containing clean corncob media for about 20 minutes. I don't have to clean the re-loader anymore 
Wes

What soap is everyone using in their brass tumbler?   I tried first with the packet of powder that comes with the steel pins.   
Worked great.  


Then I ran a batch with a dishwasher tab, which did not seem to clean quite as well, but still quite good.  

Next will be dish soap and Lemishine.  

Just curious what others are using.   Really seems to speed up my reloading.   Fewer hiccups with the press, because everything is so clean.

3 tablespoons Dawn,1/4 teaspoon Lemishime. Fill tumbler 1/2 full of brass, add water to about an inch from the top. Tumble 3 hours.

Following advice garnered from another brass prep thread here I started out using Meguiar's Gold car wash & wax (could not find the actual recommended Mother's locally), it cleaned well but the shine was just OK. Next to try was the Dawn and Lemishine combination (once I learned that Lemishine is a dishwasher additive, available at Target according to my wife), this worked out great with cleaning and shine. Most recently I got curious and decided to try the car wash/wax with the Lemishine, having run a couple of batches I think that this is my favorite (for now). As to how much of what to use, I have no real measurement. I am using the Frankford tumbler, add the pins, brass then fill with hot water and a 'dollup' of the soap and a few shakes of the 'shine'. Contrary to some beliefs, the tumbler does not rotate the water (well perhaps a little parasitically) so the strain on the motor is not increased by filling the tumbler, more water will carry more of the crud away with less rinsing the downside being slightly more wear on the shaft bearings for carrying increased weight.

Bruce

mspingeld wrote:3 tablespoons Dawn,1/4 teaspoon Lemishime. Fill tumbler 1/2 full of brass, add water to about an inch from the top. Tumble 3 hours.

Thanks,   I noticed the powder that came with the pins created a very sudsy wash.   Perhaps the bubbles add something vital to the cleaning process.


I will try the car wash and wax.   Might keep the brass from tarnishing quickly.

The soap breaks down the surface tension of the water so the dirt can be held in suspension. The Lemishine is mostly citric acid and that removes the oxidation and makes the brass shine.

I can put 500 45 ACP cases in my Thumblers Model-B, fill 1/2 with water. 1 tablespoon Lemi-shine and 1 tablespoon Cheer laundry soap. I have two M-B's one with the slower motor and one with the high speed motor, tumbling times are 4 hours and 2 hours respectively.  I use to use Dawn dish soap but found that with the Cheer my brass was much brighter and doesn't discolor or tarnish over time like when I used the Dawn.  Both soaps ( Cheer /Dawn ) however will clean the brass

Virgil Kane wrote:I can put 500 45 ACP cases in my Thumblers Model-B, fill 1/2 with water. 1 tablespoon Lemi-shine and 1 tablespoon Cheer laundry soap. I have two M-B's one with the slower motor and one with the high speed motor, tumbling times are 4 hours and 2 hours respectively.  I use to use Dawn dish soap but found that with the Cheer my brass was much brighter and doesn't discolor or tarnish over time like when I used the Dawn.  Both soaps ( Cheer /Dawn ) however will clean the brass

I suspected that the small packet of powered soap that came with the steel pins might be laundry soap.  

It is also nice to know that you can fudge the parameters on the number of cases, and still get good results.  

I set up a single stage press to deprime so I can keep the mess away from my Dillons.  


All detergents have surfactants, but the chemical composition of some are bound to be better than others for cleaning brass


Is the Cheer the original stuff or an  HE makeover for the high efficiency drum machines?

I'm also interested in which Cheer you're using. I have noticed the discoloration over time with the Dawn. Doubt it affects accuracy much but the shiny brass sure is pretty.

It's the Cheer scent free liquid soap, ALL scent free liquid soap works equally as well.  I have tried a bunch of different soaps I've had in my house with varying degrees of success. The worst was Simple Green and the best so far has been Liquid Cheer or Liquid All. I'm always experimenting with different soaps and right now I'm sticking with the liquid laundry soaps until I get the itch to experiment again.

I have even tried tumbling the brass again with Lyman Green Corncob media after I have tumbled with SS pins. Interestingly it turns the brass from a bright brass color from tumbling with SS pins, Lemi-Shine and Cheer to a whiter less brassy but highly polished brass color. Complete overkill for any pistol cartridge but done as an experiment to see if the tarnish would come back and at what rate. So far this combo of tumbling with SS pins and green corncob media has not tarnished at all in the last 8 months of sitting in my reloading room where the brass when done with SS pins and ANY soap will tarnish in that time period. The other thing is how we store the brass once tumbled. I'm not a chemist but I do know that all plastics "gas off" and most of us store the tumbled brass in a plastic bin of some sorts. I have always wondered if it's the "gassing off" that is tarnishing the brass. Same as how all the plastic on the inside of a modern vehicle "gas off" and stick to the inside of the windshield. Ever wonder why the inside of a vehicle windshield gets a film on it even if one doesn't smoke or doesn't drive the vehicle much? It's the plastics inside "gassing off" or releasing gasses that get trapped inside the plastic.

I have my doubts that any tumbling of pistol cartridges has any effect in accuracy like it does in rifle cartridges but it sure make my reloads look good!

If I dry fired or shot more and spent less time experimenting with tumbling products that don't do anything except make my brass look pretty I could possibly be a Master shooter by now but what fun would that be?


Virgil

I too have been running a car wash/wax with Lemi-shine with excellent results... brass has a bit of slickness to it so they work well in my Dillon.

After reading several different boards on the subject of steel pin brass cleaning,  I have done five batches with various degrees of success.  

Best formula so far.  Two tablespoons of tide HE powder, a teaspoon of Lemishine, and a teaspoon of TSP  (Tri Sodium Phosphate)  

Hot water, two thirds full, with 2 to 2 and a half pounds of brass.  
Not even sure the Lemishine is necessary, but the brass is really really pretty.

Crazy as it might seem, my best results have been following the directions that came with the kit. My brass looks new and I couldn't ask for any more than that.

Joel

1joel1 wrote:Crazy as it might seem, my best results have been following the directions that came with the kit. My brass looks new and I couldn't ask for any more than that.

Joel

Which kit do you have, and what were the Directions?

http://www.stainlesstumblingmedia.com/media/wysiwyg/Instructions_Website.jpg
http://www.stainlesstumblingmedia.com/featured/extreme-tumblers-rebel-17.html

I have a Biggdawg tumbler and tumble about 2,000 cases of deprimed 45 brass (24lbs) at a time and I only use 1 tbsp of Lemi Shine and 2 of dawn and fill with hot water.  I set the timer for 3 hrs but 2 is long enough.  The key to preventing discoloration is a very cold and thorough rinse.  I do an initial drying by putting the brass in a large towel grabbing the 4 corners and doing a bowling ball polish motion.  Then I set oven at 215,  put them in a cheap $1 aluminum turkey roasting pan and "bake" for 15 min.  When done I lay them on a dry towel to cool.

- Dave

I want to try the car wash-wax solution, soon. If it saved the time for the lube to dry that would be helpful. But my current method of dawn and lemishine works pretty darn well.

dronning wrote:I have a Biggdawg tumbler and tumble about 2,000 cases of deprimed 45 brass (24lbs) at a time and I only use 1 tbsp of Lemi Shine and 2 of dawn and fill with hot water.  I set the timer for 3 hrs but 2 is long enough.  The key to preventing discoloration is a very cold and thorough rinse.  I do an initial drying by putting the brass in a large towel grabbing the 4 corners and doing a bowling ball polish motion.  Then I set oven at 215,  put them in a cheap $1 aluminum turkey roasting pan and "bake" for 15 min.  When done I lay them on a dry towel to cool.

- Dave

Now another idea to try, cold rinse! I have been rinsing in 'as hot as it will get' tap water figuring that it would help them dry quicker. Haven't had an oven for some time (long story...) so air dry is my only option. There is a batch of .308 Win running right now, I will try the cold rinse.
Thanks!

Bruce

Get one of those cheap round jerky dehydrators.

One with at least 5 shelves

They work just fine for drying brass

OK, tried the cold water rinse. It seemed to take more rinsing to get rid of the remaining 'suds', that may be as much a product of my never measuring quantities as the water temperature. The brass looks great as usual. Will I change my 'procedure'? Maybe not right away but come warm weather when the boiler is not turned on already to make heat for the house, it is nice to know that I can still 'do my laundry' without timing it to match showers, dish washing, etc.

Bruce

I use ArmorAlls wash and wax soap with a dash of Lemishine in my Model B Thumlers, which has the slower speed motor. I tumble for 3-4 hours. When done, I separate the brass and pins in cool, clean water in an RCBS media separator. Then I dry the cases in a towel, then toss them in vibrating tumblers with walnut media and New Finish car polish cut 50/50 with mineral spirits. Strangely, the walnut media soaks up any remaining water and carries it away. I am not seeing any handgun cases with wet media packed in them. I do blow out bottlenecked rifle cases really quickly with compressed air before tumbling in walnut. I found I get better overall results doing it this way.

The easiest way to remove the rinse water from rifle & pistol cases is to submerge them in isopropyl alcohol followed by a quick vib in clean corn cob media.